Advice for someone starting out

[Ganglion-Blackguard]

Hi there, I just wanted to introduce myself and maybe get some direction on where to take my learning process.

I've only been producing for a few months, and I find myself a bit overwhelmed with all of the information available to me. I was hoping to get some pointers on what to learn first, or any kind of guidance at all really. I find that there is all the information I could ever want available to me online, or in books, but no real way to know what to focus on first, and what to do to make sure I have the knowledge I need to go on to the next thing. I'll lay out what I've done so far, so that you can see where I'm at. I know about the production bible, dogs on acid, and various youtube guides. I find I'm learning lots of bits, and having no real way to connect the dots. I have an incomplete song up on soundcloud you can check out to get a feel for where I'm at.

Soundcloud


I understand the main functions of my DAW (Ableton Live8)

I know the basics of working with Synthesizers (LFO, ADSR, Filters, etc) though I have a hard time making anything that I hear in my head into a reality.

I know what the standard effects do (chorus, flanger, compression, etc)

I understand dubstep song structures.

I understand the basics of dubstep drums (I can belt out patterns easily)

I already know the basics of writing music and theory, as I come from a guitar background. I have no problem jamming out riffs on my midi keyboard.

I've been able to compose complete (sort of) songs using mostly tweaked presets, random collections of effects, and blind luck, however I don't really know how to take it to the next level. Using modulation in a musical way seems to escape me for the most part. I'm kind of stuck making a cool sound, and then trying to play riffs on that "instrument" and making songs out of that. I don't really get how Dubstep artists create these ultra-complex bass patches. The only time I manage to get a good sound is by mucking around with presets and changing them up. I have tried to follow some of the tutorials in various threads about frequency splitting, bitchrushers, formant filters, and the like, but I can't get it to come together for me in any kind of usable musical sound.

So I guess I answered my own question to a degree. What I really need to work on is my sound design. I can make basic sounds (wobbles, sweeps, etc) in synths, but I have no idea how to get those complex bass sounds that I absolutely love from other Dubstep artists. I don't necessarily want to copy anyone, I just want to have the tools under my belt to create the sounds I hear in my head. I don't know what effects to use where and I don't know how to direct my experimentation.

I follow artists such as Reso, Excision/Datsik (yeah laugh it up), Benga, Noisia, Distance, Bar9, and the like. So I definitely gravitate towards the darker side of things. I'm not interested in copying their sounds, but I want to be able to create a palette of sounds to work with and I don't really know where to start. When I write music I get so bogged down with mucking with technology that I lose artistic vision.

Tips/Pointers/Sage Advice welcome! And nice to meet you.

[Mouldy Soul]

I hate it when people try to rush the natural process, you basically answered your own question, get better at sound design, start always from scratch that's how you create a pallette of sounds that isn't just pot luck in a preset bank.

Seriously there's no special trick that you can pick up or VST for that matter, it's all about learning how to do things for yourself and building up your ear skillz.

"Dubstep artists create these ultra-complex bass patches"

Because most of em spent years fucking around with synths, and training themselves to be better producers, but for you I would recommend trying what it sounds like to attach Key value to unsynced LFO rate x and attach LFO x to cutoff, then as you play higher up the keyboard the Wobbs will go faster, then try attaching velocity to LFO rate, a try writing in a bass line and changing the velocity (as long a velocity is not controlling volume now).

If you don't not know how to do this then find out, think of this as a challenge, if you can come up with the goods ie post a clip where you achieve this, I will reveal another secret from the dub step colon of satan.

Peas

[jolly wailer]

keep at it


2 ears 1 mouth


listen 2 times more than you would speak


keep at it some more



there's just diddling around and making tunes

and then your sense of purpose (what do I want my music to do for me?) comes later


this process occurs over time





u seem to be off to a good start



what do you want to get out of it?

and then keep at it some more

[Neff]

im not gonna give any advise im in the same situation as you but id just like to say i really do love that bassline in your song maybe a little more time spent on the drums and itd be awesome

[nowaysj]

Just keep doing what you are doing. If you've got down all that you say you've got down, you just need to put it all together, and that just takes time and relentless effort.

Take a two bar chunk of your track as a wav, and load it into ableton. Take a two bar chunk of an excision track, and load it up underneath your track. See any differences? Now alternate the chunks, listen to excision, then yours, then excision, then yours, do it for a while. Do you notice that there is maybe 15 to 20 times more work done in that excision two bar loop than in your two bar loop?

[jolly wailer]

true say


do more work!

[distance]

Give yourself a week of just making sound/patches/samples then your ready to crack on with your own fresh sounds rather then building them at the time. Whilst doing that you may come with a sound so inspiring that you write a tune from there.

Most of my tunes start by me making some wierd twisted sound.

Try using synths and vsts that arnt the norm.

If you ask anyone in dubstep what synths they use more times then not the answer is Albino and Massive, its always good to try different software.

For 4 years I only ever used one synth for my basses. Nomad, Empire, Tropical rub, Replicant, Traffic and Cyclops where all made using a free vst synth that everyone overlooked and basically thought was shit.

Think outside the box.

[Ganglion-Blackguard]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm well aware I need put way more time and work into everything, it's just a matter of directing all that effort into something productive, rather than stumbling around blind, which is what I feel like I'm doing at this point.

Mouldy, your post helped quite a bit. In other words, find every single parameter you can and modulate the hell out of it with every single modifier you can find, and try to make it sound cool. And here's an audio clip of my messing around,

Soundcloud



I know I have a long road of experimentation and trial and error ahead of me, but reinventing the wheel from scratch isn't the best idea either. I'll keep trying to pick up whatever I can here and there and somehow put it all together. I don't plan on quitting any time soon.

Any more direction and guidance is more than welcome, thank you.

[nowaysj]

it's just a matter of directing all that effort into something productive, rather than stumbling around blind, which is what I feel like I'm doing at this point.

Well I hate to be the one to tell you, but you were born free. Do with it what you will, time is short.

[tripwire22]

Give yourself a week of just making sound/patches/samples then your ready to crack on with your own fresh sounds rather then building them at the time. Whilst doing that you may come with a sound so inspiring that you write a tune from there.

Most of my tunes start by me making some wierd twisted sound.

Try using synths and vsts that arnt the norm.

If you ask anyone in dubstep what synths they use more times then not the answer is Albino and Massive, its always good to try different software.

For 4 years I only ever used one synth for my basses. Nomad, Empire, Tropical rub, Replicant, Traffic and Cyclops where all made using a free vst synth that everyone overlooked and basically thought was shit.

Think outside the box.

Big up distance!

[Mouldy Soul]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm well aware I need put way more time and work into everything, it's just a matter of directing all that effort into something productive, rather than stumbling around blind, which is what I feel like I'm doing at this point.

Mouldy, your post helped quite a bit. In other words, find every single parameter you can and modulate the hell out of it with every single modifier you can find, and try to make it sound cool. And here's an audio clip of my messing around,

Soundcloud



I know I have a long road of experimentation and trial and error ahead of me, but reinventing the wheel from scratch isn't the best idea either. I'll keep trying to pick up whatever I can here and there and somehow put it all together. I don't plan on quitting any time soon.

Any more direction and guidance is more than welcome, thank you.

That was brilliant, thank you so much.

What synth you using, I'll share some presets with you, for your heroic effort, which I'll explain as well, and the because I've been acused of being an evil tentacle, I wanna make it up to yous and the Dub 'rum

[Ganglion-Blackguard]

I'm using Massive. I just find it so much more intuitive than the other synths. Once I learn it down to the last 0 and 1 I'll probably branch out some more.

[Mouldy Soul]

So you've a wicked starting point, I'll make some patches quick to explain*, and post back here in 30 mins or so

*Musically using wobbles that is, which is one of the things you stated you could work out, an exemplified in the clip that you posted of the mods.

In a bit

[Mouldy Soul]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/j34oj7

There you go there's 6 quick presets I've put together fo yo enjoyment could explain how they work but it's probably way more fun just playing around now

Peas

[Ganglion-Blackguard]

Thanks again Mouldly. Now, back to fiddling.

Er, I don't know what to do with a .aupreset file

[Mouldy Soul]

Shit aupreset must me audio unit preset exclusive to Mac's I'm gonna try and find out how to save so you can load in vst

[Mouldy Soul]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/184aie

Here's the massive files sorry, I didn't realise sooner.

Hope this helps

[Ganglion-Blackguard]

Still full of aupreset files. Maybe you uploaded the wrong one the second time?

[Mouldy Soul]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/h2ny4v

Get there in the end enjoy, sorry again.