england is grim

[Pistonsbeneath]

Pistons - do you hate being white ?

what kind of question is that?

do you love being white?

[tr0tsky]

Anyway, am really impressed with what you're doing, but doing such things constantly in the proximity of "people like you" is not going to influence those who are not like you... i.e. the people's minds you wish to change.

You shouldn't make assumptions about my politics or activism.

The problem is that you’re confusing working alongside those that share a particular political opinion or analysis or will to change the world, and the question of how you bring people towards you.

Naturally, if I was proper into fishing the lads I’d go to the pond with would be…fishermen. In the same light, I have some mates who are kinda sorta into dubstep. I take them out and introduce them to my boys that are on it.


Now a criticism I have of, for instance the anti-capitalist/revolutionary left is that they exist too much in a partially self-imposed ghetto with no understanding on how to relate to ordinary people. The point is making social struggle RELEVENT to them.

I will spend most of my weekend organising young workers into my union at a call centre in Hammersmith. It’s through discussions on getting a living wage, getting holiday pay, getting adequate maternity leave and toilet breaks to you bring people into questioning economic relations and class positions.

Same with anti-racist movements and struggles, which you clearly don’t deem necessary to take place.



The English Defence League will attempt to march through Tower Hamlets on the 20th of this month. If you’re right by your analysis, it’ll be (and I use this perception again) middle class SWP dreadlocked trustafarian students out to demonstrate against them.

If I on the other hand are correct in my analysis, I think the local Bangladeshi lads will have a good punt. Why? Because I believe that those that are at the cutting edge of, for instance, the structural racism inherent in the society we live in are well aware of its existence and make no excuses for organizing to resist it.

[saphyre]

Anyway Saphyre, regarding your comment, you've proved to be the most clueless idiot within this topic, and to insult my productive way of encouraging fun between all humans says very little about your persona or deluded campaign. Of course I'm affected by racism, but 95% of the time it's shitty little rich white kids moaning without doing anything or even daring to mingle with different cultures. The other 5% is being assaulted by gangs of different cultures (See, 'racism' means only NEGATIVE topics! I'm sure none of you fuckers are interested by the ample positive parts of life I've had with other races. Why? None of which contribute to a harmonious future whatsoever, and I'm not going to let them soil the bonds I've made with friends all around the world. Keep on moaning about racists! Hell, some people feel their life is only complete when their fears become reality

okay you've made friends and partied with people of different cultures, and in the process you developed some close bonds. cool. people do that by default, you havent changed the world. I dont know what you're trying to say, that im a little rich white kid moaning without doing anything? but you're the one whos telling everyone to stop complaining! what we're doing isnt complaining its a discussion and hopefully people may learn something from it.

its like 2 adults are having a conversation and you are this kid and you interrupt the conversation and tell them both theres no point in talking they should be playing with their toys, because toys are fun and talking isnt

[tr0tsky]

Anyway Saphyre, regarding your comment, you've proved to be the most clueless idiot within this topic, and to insult my productive way of encouraging fun between all humans says very little about your persona or deluded campaign. Of course I'm affected by racism, but 95% of the time it's shitty little rich white kids moaning without doing anything or even daring to mingle with different cultures. The other 5% is being assaulted by gangs of different cultures (See, 'racism' means only NEGATIVE topics! I'm sure none of you fuckers are interested by the ample positive parts of life I've had with other races. Why? None of which contribute to a harmonious future whatsoever, and I'm not going to let them soil the bonds I've made with friends all around the world. Keep on moaning about racists! Hell, some people feel their life is only complete when their fears become reality

okay you've made friends and partied with people of different cultures, and in the process you developed some close bonds. cool. people do that by default, you havent changed the world.

Told.

[dubmatters]

quite a few of you come across like hippy activist wankers tbh.

[tr0tsky]

I'm hardly a hippy!

Militant class-struggle revolutionist perhaps, but hippy NEVER.

[drlego]

being racist is the belief that a "race" is better than any others inherently.

Waving a flag is something you do with your hands. Its not racist, it can be done by racists, it can be done by non racists.

The very fact that people say something is racist and its best left to the BNP brigade is giving in. Challenge racism all the time, stand up and say I wont accept that. Thats not me and its not what I find acceptable.

Stand arm in arm with everyone who believes in the same thing as you, be that we are all equal or Rooney can help England beat United and wave your flags together, as equal, as one.

[mr. lizard]

Pistons - do you hate being white ?

what kind of question is that?

do you love being white?

Yeh, it's alwhite

[BLAHBLAHJAH]

I don't think anti racist nor racist marches serve any purpose, other than showing the opposing force how big your member base has become. Obviously it's beyond sickening to hear of things like the EDL 'organising' things like that along with police support, but a march is all about attention and being observed. If the streets where completely empty, sure the most brainless of the EDL (92-98%) would get a power trip, but those with a fraction of thought would take meaning from the lack of attention or care. On the contrary, a big riot, which is what is probably hoped for, will draw in national attention and exponentially increase the numbers on both sides of the fence

It's just so tiring. Exactly what the government wants though; native white people marching against native 'other' people. Rather than uniting and marching against one of the infinite corruptions this country gives to us all as a whole.

Saphyre - my point is striving to change the world based only on racial communication is a joke. Further still, everybody complains about racism without ever considering -as you say- the natural aspect of 'forming bonds by default'. It's a minor game in the pawns that money plays with. Racism is just a big diversion to the bigger picture of global harmony - it's what higher forces want the lower population to be obsessed with, so when the time for manipulation comes, everything will flow smoother. History repeats itself and it's the logical people who are in the middle and capable of adaptation that prevail

Keep on hating those within your own race and try to figure out why some people hate those of others

Anyway, if racism was as big an issue as you all claim, surely it would of taken more than 50 years to forgive germany for its ideas back in 1940. Seems it's a scapegoat with a shallower message of unstability in a world that's too populated. Maybe we can find one 'race' that isn't racist at all "(being racist is the belief that a "race" is better than any others inherently.)" to volunteer for a mass suicide to benefit the rest of us stnuc! Altruism has no part in any of it

'Revolutionists' tend to do as the name says, and just revolve the same useless issues without any real goals or 'straight paths towards success'

Oh and I'm definately not a hippy, I always pay for my own bud

[the acid never lies]

wanker

Middle class SWP trustafarians live in East London too!

[faust.dtc]

Everybody knows that only white people are racist anyway.

I understand what you're saying Travis, but there's a difference between me calling you a honkey [which would be a racial slur] and the endemic and systematic racism [of for instance anti-refugee sentiment, Islamophobia or anti-Irish prejudice at the turn of the century]

Yougetsme?

I get you mate but I think people are too quick immediately consider the smallest things racism when it is said against a minority. Objection towards subjects such as immigration isnt just the white mans problem but a feeling shared across the country by many people of all races who feel better control needs to be taken. Believe it or not there are a lot of non-white people in England who believe there are people entering the country who intentionally aim to abuse the system.
If a non-white person holds this view point it can be backed up with 'when my grand parents came over they had to work hard for what they earned' and that is accepted however when a white person holds the same view it is immediately assumed that their dislike is purely aimed towards the colour of the persons skin.
Why is it that if a person claims asylum, abuses the system and then complains the country is shit do we have to except it in fear of being seen as a racist. I do not agree behaviour like this is acceptable but not because of the persons colour or background but because I think they are greedy, ungrateful stnuc who take without giving anything back while potentially taking the opportunity away from somebody, white or other, who would actually appreciate the chance to be in such a position. Lets not agree with my racist views though becasue they might infringe somebodies human rights and we dont want that do we.
Why is it that when St Georges Day comes around people do not celebrate a reason for the nation to at least unite for an excuse to have a drink together for fear of any connection to racial hatred however when St Patricks Day comes around we all smile at how the Irish seem like a happy fun lot who have pride in where they come from?
I think white, English people have a really bad stigma attached to them, which could be due to our history, but any argument against us all being like this just adds further proof of us all being undercover racists looking for excuses.

[the acid never lies]

Why is it that if a person claims asylum, abuses the system and then complains the country is shit do we have to except it in fear of being seen as a racist.

There's a difference between being for fair play and the way that this particular example is exaggerated. It doesn't make somebody a racist to bring this up but it is institutionally racist because it puts a disproportionate amount of blame on immigrants for a country's financial troubles. When it comes to abuses of the system, the money taken in 'benefit theft' is nothing compared to the amount of public money that is used to subsidize profits often for people and companies who are themselves exempt from paying taxes - but you hardly see that being shouted out on the Daily Mail.

It isn't fair to call people who make this complaint racist by default, but it definitely represents misplaced priorities.

[Pistonsbeneath]

quite a few of you come across like hippy activist wankers tbh.

to who?

[Motorway to Roswell]

Only one race. The human race.

[Pedro Sánchez]

Back on topic, I just can't see how waving a fucking white flag with a red cross on it helps a football team in a tournament held in another country. I don't think them overpaid players in their luxury training facility in south africa are getting status reports about how John for Rotherham is hanging a 6foot flag outside his council flat even though he doesn't understand the offside rule and will be on his back bollockfaced during most the matches all just to show he like his national team.

[magma]

Why is it that when St Georges Day comes around people do not celebrate a reason for the nation to at least unite for an excuse to have a drink together for fear of any connection to racial hatred however when St Patricks Day comes around we all smile at how the Irish seem like a happy fun lot who have pride in where they come from?
I think white, English people have a really bad stigma attached to them, which could be due to our history, but any argument against us all being like this just adds further proof of us all being undercover racists looking for excuses.

And anyway, you're Italian (?) and I'm half French and Irish if people want to get properly bloody nationalistic.. my family's only been fully "English" for two generations before me.... doesn't mean I don't feel English. I was raised in England.. I like the Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy, Cricket and Stephen Fry. My girlfriend's from Chesterfield. There's nothing wrong with feeling a bit of identity from your cultural background.

Football is just a bit of harmless tribalism - in the same way that most football fans can be trusted to wear their team's colours without causing trouble, some take the separation too far and have riots - given that it happens at a club level, there's no need to even think about racism or nationalism - it's tribalism and that's perfectly human. There's no cries of racism when Bristol City fans are getting battered by Millwall fans...

I wonder if other countries have these arguments about their flags... I mean, most countries have some form of the racist history.. in fact, a fair few of our opponents in South Africa have a much worse present than us, too... it's very typically British to assume we're the worst.... we're actually a pretty nice people on average.

[the acid never lies]

Aren't racism / tribalism essentially the same thing? It's not as if somebody with racist views needs a rational justification, that's why 'racism' is the constant and the reasons are always changing (biology, culture, religion....)

[the acid never lies]

[drlego]

Aren't racism / tribalism essentially the same thing? It's not as if somebody with racist views needs a rational justification, that's why 'racism' is the constant and the reasons are always changing (biology, culture, religion....)

Close but its not quite right.

racism is another one one of the reasons, the why is because humans always work in a them and us situation. People try to create a bond with others in order to make them feel as if they fit in and to do that they create a shared reason to bond together and dislike some other people.

[hackman]

Only one race. The human race.

yep