My DAW is better than yours! (Friendly DAW Wars debate)

[futures_untold]

Depone's review got me interested in testing the multi-out VSTi aspects of Reaper, something I've rarely used up to this point. I found some of the same things happened to me as thy did Depone, but also think I managed to work out why some of those things were happenig after some googling.

Here's what I did.

1> DL'd Battery demo and installed it as a 32bit VSTi

2> Opened Reaper on a blank project.

--------------------

3> Right clicked on the channel area and selected 'Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track'.

4> Selected Battery and clicked 'Yes' on the audio routing pop up window. (Reaper automatically creates 17 tracks, which are routed together but don't form a folder).

5> Loaded some samples in different cells and select different output channels using Battery's 'output channel selector' drop down menu (found underneath the master volume for each cell).

At this point, everything is working fine. I can draw one midi item on the topmost track (the one that contains Battery), and this midi item is triggering the different cells for which the audio is being output on the different audio channels below.

So far so good, but I want to collapse the audio channels to regain screen space.

--------------------

6> I press the folder button on the top most channel (the one containing Battery) as this will allow me to collapse the channels contained within the folder with one button press. Audio cuts out completely, even though midi is still being triggered on Battery....

7> Headache ensues, as I try to mess with the 'master/parent send button on the top channel and to route various configurations. No success.

8> The day darkens and small babies cry outside, irritating me further.

9> Reach for Google and Cockos' forum search button.

10> My eyes become sore with reading, and almost explode like the end scenes of Total Recall when they end up on the suface of Mars without oxygen masks.

--------------------

11> Success mofos. Solution found, Reaper regains crown and all other sequencer packages suck (especially Ableton Meh, Cubendoh! and FL blurgh).

SOLUTION: Built the multiple outs as listed in step 4, dragged the channel containing Battery to the bottom of the tracks created, and made it the final track in the folder instead of the first. Routed the audio from Battery's cells to outputs 3/4, 5/6 as normal. Everything works like a dream!

I can now do all the midi sequencing on the channel containing Battery, while I can process each output differently on the audio channels above. I can also collapse the folder, to keep the project tidy.

The moral of the story is download Reaper now haha http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

[JBE]

Depone's review got me interested in testing the multi-out VSTi aspects of Reaper, something I've rarely used up to this point. I found some of the same things happened to me as thy did Depone, but also think I managed to work out why some of those things were happenig after some googling.

Here's what I did.

1> DL'd Battery demo and installed it as a 32bit VSTi

2> Opened Reaper on a blank project.

--------------------

3> Right clicked on the channel area and selected 'Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track'.

4> Selected Battery and clicked 'Yes' on the audio routing pop up window. (Reaper automatically creates 17 tracks, which are routed together but don't form a folder).

5> Loaded some samples in different cells and select different output channels using Battery's 'output channel selector' drop down menu (found underneath the master volume for each cell).

At this point, everything is working fine. I can draw one midi item on the topmost track (the one that contains Battery), and this midi item is triggering the different cells for which the audio is being output on the different audio channels below.

So far so good, but I want to collapse the audio channels to regain screen space.

--------------------

6> I press the folder button on the top most channel (the one containing Battery) as this will allow me to collapse the channels contained within the folder with one button press. Audio cuts out completely, even though midi is still being triggered on Battery....

7> Headache ensues, as I try to mess with the 'master/parent send button on the top channel and to route various configurations. No success.

8> The day darkens and small babies cry outside, irritating me further.

9> Reach for Google and Cockos' forum search button.

10> My eyes become sore with reading, and almost explode like the end scenes of Total Recall when they end up on the suface of Mars without oxygen masks.

--------------------

11> Success mofos. Solution found, Reaper regains crown and all other sequencer packages suck (especially Ableton Meh, Cubendoh! and FL blurgh).

SOLUTION: Built the multiple outs as listed in step 4, dragged the channel containing Battery to the bottom of the tracks created, and made it the final track in the folder instead of the first. Routed the audio from Battery's cells to outputs 3/4, 5/6 as normal. Everything works like a dream!

I can now do all the midi sequencing on the channel containing Battery, while I can process each output differently on the audio channels above. I can also collapse the folder, to keep the project tidy.

The moral of the story is download Reaper now haha http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

Sounds like a lot of work just to create a parent layer that triggers multiple "child" instruments. With FL it's as easy as inserting a layer, highlighting the instruments you want controlled and then click "set children". It's not a feature I really use that much of though. The best thing I can see it being used for is pads but most of the time just 2 instruments is enough to make the pads I need. Especially with how powerful the VSTs are now a days. I guess back when software synthesizers weren't that popular and you were stuck with less than average options it required multiple channels just to get a somewhat desirable sound.

[Depone]

Depone's review got me interested in testing the multi-out VSTi aspects of Reaper, something I've rarely used up to this point. I found some of the same things happened to me as thy did Depone, but also think I managed to work out why some of those things were happenig after some googling.

Here's what I did.

1> DL'd Battery demo and installed it as a 32bit VSTi

2> Opened Reaper on a blank project.

--------------------

3> Right clicked on the channel area and selected 'Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track'.

4> Selected Battery and clicked 'Yes' on the audio routing pop up window. (Reaper automatically creates 17 tracks, which are routed together but don't form a folder).

5> Loaded some samples in different cells and select different output channels using Battery's 'output channel selector' drop down menu (found underneath the master volume for each cell).

At this point, everything is working fine. I can draw one midi item on the topmost track (the one that contains Battery), and this midi item is triggering the different cells for which the audio is being output on the different audio channels below.

So far so good, but I want to collapse the audio channels to regain screen space.

--------------------

6> I press the folder button on the top most channel (the one containing Battery) as this will allow me to collapse the channels contained within the folder with one button press. Audio cuts out completely, even though midi is still being triggered on Battery....

7> Headache ensues, as I try to mess with the 'master/parent send button on the top channel and to route various configurations. No success.

8> The day darkens and small babies cry outside, irritating me further.

9> Reach for Google and Cockos' forum search button.

10> My eyes become sore with reading, and almost explode like the end scenes of Total Recall when they end up on the suface of Mars without oxygen masks.

--------------------

11> Success mofos. Solution found, Reaper regains crown and all other sequencer packages suck (especially Ableton Meh, Cubendoh! and FL blurgh).

SOLUTION: Built the multiple outs as listed in step 4, dragged the channel containing Battery to the bottom of the tracks created, and made it the final track in the folder instead of the first. Routed the audio from Battery's cells to outputs 3/4, 5/6 as normal. Everything works like a dream!

I can now do all the midi sequencing on the channel containing Battery, while I can process each output differently on the audio channels above. I can also collapse the folder, to keep the project tidy.

The moral of the story is download Reaper now haha http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

Sounds like a lot of work just to create a parent layer that triggers multiple "child" instruments. With FL it's as easy as inserting a layer, highlighting the instruments you want controlled and then click "set children". It's not a feature I really use that much of though. The best thing I can see it being used for is pads but most of the time just 2 instruments is enough to make the pads I need. Especially with how powerful the VSTs are now a days. I guess back when software synthesizers weren't that popular and you were stuck with less than average options it required multiple channels just to get a somewhat desirable sound.

You have clearly missed the point. Its most useful for drums. IE haivng all your samps in on instance of battery but they are being outputted to their individual channels in the mixer to tweak.

[futures_untold]

That was admittedly far too much work just to create a multi-out VSTi...

But now I know how to do it, the process is actually simple.

-----------------

Click 1 > Right-click in the channels area and select 'insert virtual instrument on new track'

Click 2> Select VSTi

Click 3> Click 'Yes' when it asks to build routing for you.

-----------------

If you want the new channels to be contained within a folderl:

Click 4> Drag the channel with VSTi on it to bottom of the newly created channels.

Click 5> Set the top channel as the 'folder start'.

Click 6> Set the bottom channel (the one with the VSTi) as the folder end.

That's fairly fast, yet it could be improved further imo.

-----------------

I think I'll create an action* that automatically creates and arranges the folders for me. With a custom action defined, the entire process could be achieved in just 3 clicks!

1> Create new VSTi
2> Select VSTi
3> Click 'Yes' so it automatically does the routing.
4> The folder stuff is in the action, and happens automatically after step 3.



-----------------

Still, I want to know more about '1 click' mutlipy-out VSTi options in Cubase and FL Studio.

Anyone care to do write a step by step process for those programs to enlighten us all?

[futures_untold]

Sounds like a lot of work just to create a parent layer that triggers multiple "child" instruments.

I just understood properly what you are refering too, and in Reaper its incredibly easy to control multiple synths from just one channel.

Easy Method 1:

The easier method is to click FX, and choose as many synths or samplers as you want to play on that channel. (This is very similar to having multiple synths inside a combinator unit in Reason). So basically, all you do is load multiple synths onto one channel, and do your midi as normal. All the synths will be triggered, and all of them processed by any insert effects found lower in the plugin chain.



Easy Method 2:

The longer method is to create multiple channels, each with the synth you want. Then to send the midi from the source channel to the others, you click on the I/O button on the channel containing the midi and drag it anywhere on the channel containing your synths. (Creating a folder track is optional).



http://www.reaper.fm/download.php

[antagonist2012]

Acid Pro 7 anyone ?

Who are you, fucking Rusko?

your all bashing macs cus you lot carnt afford them. /snobbery

nah joking aside, logic = muscle

Hey!! A lot of us can afford them, yet would rather get something more powerful for the money. I bought a macbook pro last year and took it back in THREE days. It was such a slow piece of shit for the $1600 I paid for it. Couldn't run a half-completed track in reason (which is quite sad, I've used a cheap old pc with a pentium d processor and 512mb ram and it SMOKED the macbook pro). I returned it promptl[img]y and bought a gateway with an i7 processor, 1tb hdd and 9gb ddr3 for the same price, which will shatter any mac under $2500. It's all a matter of choice - software/system stability, or hardware power. Lots choose power.
That said, I use Record/Reason.
I've been somewhat of a fanboy of reason in the past and had gotten quite tired of defending its inherent 3rd party exclusivity. People don't seem to remember Rewire. Those people that need better audio editing and 3rd party plug-ins can still benefit from using reason as a synthesizer workstation / drum machine. I love the uniqueness of the 'hardware feel' of the rack, and I love learning how to use more and more routing options. I love the stability. I've never had reason 'crash' on me in the 3 years I've used it.
I like how record has made the rack modifiable in width and not just vertically expandable. The new mixer friggin' kills it, as well. The ID8, however, is utterly pointless.

The ones I own legitimately are Reason, Record, Ableton Live, and Cubase. I have to say cubase is my favorite audio editor, though I don't have a good mic/mixer and I can't be bothered with switching between program windows all the time, and usually end up creating instrumental tunes in reason.

I am, however, beta testing Record 1.5 and Reason 5. HATE IT.
Reason 5: Why add another half-assed drum machine (Kong) when you've got NN-XT and Redrum already? Stupid. That's supposed to make me shell out more cash for the upgrade? I don't think so. They're also using the 'updated sequencer' as a selling point... Anyone who owns Record 1.0 already has this updated interface.
Record 1.5: Fix where you went wrong before tackling new challenges... Neptune is crap, considering there's still no manual time stretching. Pitch shifting without timestretching is only half the picture.
Won't be purchasing another propellerhead product till reason 6, that's for sure.[/img]

[Mysius]

Won't be purchasing another propellerhead product till reason 6, that's for sure.[/img]

Indeed. Shame that will probably be in 2014. Not quick on the uptake in Sweden

[samurai]

there is manual time-stretching in record 1.5. hold shift and stretch the audio.

and i personally like kong. i always wanted a dedicated drum synth in reason. and the inclusion of physical modeling drum modules is a really nice touch.

[wayoftheworld]

Why are people calling logic pretty? I think it looks professional.

Its simple, clear and a monotone grey/black... far from all this 'pretty boy' smack talk going around.

ha ha ha, jokes



Ableton could provide this level of functionality in a 2 inch by 4 inch square. But keep thinking brushed metal pixels make you a professional.

just as well, keep thinking little chili peppers and animated pixie dancers makes you a professional

[JBE]

Still, I want to know more about '1 click' mutlipy-out VSTi options in Cubase and FL Studio.

Anyone care to do write a step by step process for those programs to enlighten us all?

From what I understand with FL, you basically just load your vst and then set it's port to an open port. Then insert a Midi Out and then set the port on it to the same as the VST, and then set the channel on the Midi Out to correspond with whatever channel you set for each sound.

It sounds like reaper is actually able to do this with any instrument/sample where as FL will only do it with Multi-Out supported VSTs.

[antagonist2012]

there is manual time-stretching in record 1.5. hold shift and stretch the audio.

and i personally like kong. i always wanted a dedicated drum synth in reason. and the inclusion of physical modeling drum modules is a really nice touch.

Wow. didn't know that about the timestretching... you would think they would be more blatant in advertising that. I'll have to try it when I get back in.

I think kong is a cool idea, but physical modeling is a bit tedious given the amount of 'analog drum sounds' out there. IMO they all sound too basic. I do all-digital production and the only acoustic sounds I like are the drums typically, so this may just be one loner's opinion on a great new device. I think they couldve retrofitted redrum with 14 channels to match the mixer and put the 'start' and 'bend' knobs on every channel. I would've been happy with that.

[abZ]

You guys go through all that for battery lol. Live user don't need that garbage - drumracks built right in.

So let's update here...

Logic - sweet video game bro
Reaper - give you updates weekly but should be daily because it's a buggy piece of garbage.

Like a lot of threads around here maybe we should just go ask mum and dad (sharmaji and macc)

Ableton ftmfw

[sixth sense]

Yeah I've given up on battery/reaper I'll stick to my drumracks in ableton because it works with my padkontrol by default no fussing about just straight to business!

[CBK81]

Ableton is just plain awesome. I started out using hardware back in the day, then used fl studio for several years. Changed to Ableton about 6 months ago and haven't looked back.

[paravrais]

Yeah I've given up on battery/reaper I'll stick to my drumracks in ableton because it works with my padkontrol by default no fussing about just straight to business!

+1

... innit

[dubmatters]

Ableton - seemed a bit clunky when i first used it(live 5), need to learn it properly before I give a real judgement, since many dj's use it to great effect.

Logic - Very powerful DAW, really like the user interface and version 9 really suits my workflow.

Reason - Began making beats using reason in 2005, liked the ui but didn't like to be locked in with the silly virtual instruments. They are good, but I do like choice.

FL Studio - Briefly had this, very easy to get started but didn't like the ui.

Cubase - found it a bit confusing, but do respect it since many of my mates use it and make banging tunes.

[sixth sense]

Yeah I've given up on battery/reaper I'll stick to my drumracks in ableton because it works with my padkontrol by default no fussing about just straight to business!

+1

... innit

Well I got it working now but still prefer drumracks because I'm so use to them

[nowaysj]

Whoever was talking about multiout vst's in fl was barking up the wrong tree.

In fl, you can assign an instrument to any mixer channel. (which is nice, cause it's an easy way to prebuss a bunch of elements that you want to treat similarly, without using up 15 mixer channels just so you can buss them all to one channel)

In the wrapper for that instrument, you just assign other mixer tracks if you want multi outs. You don't have to assign them all, just the ones you want. If you always want battery to go to same mixer channels, you just save the setting and every time you load battery, the extra outs are already assigned. Easy Peasy.

Now, if you are using a sampler, and have completely different elements on each midi channel, yes you can add midi tracks for each element, or you can sequence up to 16 different midi channels in the instrument's midi clip. Just select different color notes and bobs your uncle. For interlocking orchestral pieces, this is great, don't have to constantly switch between each midi clip, just to add a note to a violin or something and you can see what all your parts are doing all together.

Dropped my dell laptop in the bath tub while writing this post.

[futures_untold]

I think the reality of Multi-out VSTis is the same across all DAWs...

Ballache hehe

er, how's your laptop after falling in the tub??

[nowaysj]

Wasn't water in there. But it was a naaaasty fall.

No ball ache for fruity. Cubase, yes. Rearper yes. Live, a bit.