indiestep

[farina]

wow, I just wiki'd you guys, looks like you were pretty big

Never big enough though... damn you, NME!!

[blackdown]

But where is that latent racism? I don't see it.

it is there, and if you want to disentangle it from the influence of class then here's an example: the NME ran in the past with lots of coverage of Oasis, pitched against Blur in some mock class war. Yet they'd never run the same coverage of grime acts over Haduken.

basically UK black urban artists are NOT given the same chances by the NME and the whole rock press as UK white urban music. Compare the successes of Lady Sov, The Streets, Plan B with say... the rest of grime.

the whole issue of rock v urban acts (black or white) is complicated by cyclical relationships, ones that benifit rock and supress the urban music, such as:

PR > media coverage > audience size > PR coverage... .

These relationships work such that at each occasion UK urban acts aren't given a chance to get to the next stage of the cycle, it is masked how good the music is and how big it could be. "oh but nobody likes it," a rock critic could say, but then is it any surprise?

this has always frustrated me, because songs dont have an intrinsic popularity alone, a popularity is affected by how many people are exposed to it, which has been proven time and time again when some "niche" instrumental dance tune gets put on an advert and suddenly everyone likes it. the tune's the same, so why is it more popular? exposure...

[sand leaper]

basically UK black urban artists are NOT given the same chances by the NME and the whole rock press as UK white urban music. Compare the successes of Lady Sov, The Streets, Plan B with say... the rest of grime.

Which black grime artists have had the same level of success as say, The Streets, apart from Dizzee Rascal? I honestly can't think of any..

[shonky]

basically UK black urban artists are NOT given the same chances by the NME and the whole rock press as UK white urban music. Compare the successes of Lady Sov, The Streets, Plan B with say... the rest of grime.

Ermmm...Dizzee?

It's gotta be said that to an outsider, grime's about as comprehensible as most dancehall - it's not the race thing, it's the slang (unless not understanding the vocab is now seen as nazism). Doesn't bother me so much cause I rarely listen to lyrics anyway, and I generally prefer instrumental tunes.

It's not a problem with hip hop, so I don't think that's the whole story. And let's face it, the Streets are pretty much Blur with beats which is why the indie kids are down with it.

And Sov's gonna do well, as she's got a saleable persona off the bat

And indie kids love Outkast too

So I don't think the race card is quite as heavy as you think

The problem with grime is that if you don't hang around in that scene that a lot of people just assume it's all aggy nonsense which has got precisely shite all to do with middle class kids who generally buy indie.

[blackdown]

exactly. and grime is one of if not the most important music styles to come out of the UK this decade. it is/was totally revolutionary.

[ozols man]

if one thing fucks me off, its ironic music. i mean, if i want comedy, ill watch a comedy.

also, i dont those kids are racist, i mean they probably have a limited understanding of black culture which their priviliged upbringing has permited them to, but at the end of the day, white people have been imitating black music since day.

overall these kids are a proper wank though, proper proper wank, im shocked what thing have come to

[Jubz]

I dont know why your all so precious about this scene, contrary to popular belief its not full of enlightened and open-minded individuals.

[cody]

I dont know why your all so precious about this scene, contrary to popular belief its not full of enlightened and open-minded individuals.

you know that mate. lot of snipers out here

indiestep - not for me thanks

[juliun_c90]

a lot of this discussion seems to presuppose that 'indie' and 'indiekids' are an easily-identifiable category of individuals.

the term 'indie' has so many different meanings (and often divergent and diluted meanings in relation to its original usage) that its a pretty fucking useless terminology.

some people are getting upset about racism/appropriation/gentrification issues and in the next breath happily chucking around generalised statements about 'indiekids'.

dubsteppers are so narrow-minded!

see what i did there?

[j_j]

exactly. and grime is one of if not the most important music styles to come out of the UK this decade. it is/was totally revolutionary.

[slothrop]

this has always frustrated me, because songs dont have an intrinsic popularity alone, a popularity is affected by how many people are exposed to it, which has been proven time and time again when some "niche" instrumental dance tune gets put on an advert and suddenly everyone likes it. the tune's the same, so why is it more popular? exposure...

I think part of the problem is that the mainstream music press still haven't got their heads around how to cover scenes that aren't based around album artists. You can't put it down to just race, since they can't really get their heads around white or mixed race dance scenes like techno or house or dnb either. It's noticeable that the artists that get coverage are often the ones who've stuck out a consistant album and promoted it like a rock band would. As has been the way with coverage of dance acts for the last 15 years.

(I wonder if this works both ways - whether part of the problem that UK urban music has had is not having PR people and record labels who know how to hawk an artist to the mainstream press in a way that gives them something to write about?)

[dubhunter]

Blackdown hit the nail on the head imo

[T_macabre]

i must say tho, its nme being retarded.. dr venom made grime, hes makin grime beats for their sound, but what the fuck are they to do with dubstep... this aint it
if its being paralleled to any underground genre it would be grime...but then again it aint that either.
surely its this nu-rave [klaxons etc]

dubstep aint basic electro, lyrics screamed over the top and thrashing guitars now isit?
put nme back in there place and give them some proper dubstep to check..

[masstronaut]

put nme back in there place and give them some proper dubstep to check..

Be careful what you wish for.

[T_macabre]

put nme back in there place and give them some proper dubstep to check..

Be careful what you wish for.

hmmm well we dont want our scene littered with the bangwagon brigade, itll ruin the vibe

dubstep seems to be a doin a good job of growing and enlightening people worldwide without the need for nme, so maybe we shouldn't bother with them

then again it'll raise the arguement of the benefits of dubstep if it is taken in on a massive scale

two sides to the coin, but i don't wanna see dubstep ending up like garage did!

[paulie]

hmmm well we dont want our scene littered with the bangwagon brigade

Any more than it is already...

[flipw]

On the race thing I don't think Grime vocalists sound especially black, they just sound working class to me. Since the UK have this anti-chav vibe going on I think that's a reason why more people don't connect with the music.

For me I never was into indie but always associate it with students. They are still forming their tribes and will always require a mix down the union; indiepoprockdance nights.

Didnt listen to this bandwagon band yet but am not surprised that something street has been repackaged and sold to a wider audience. Companies will always be seeking cool products which with some tweaking and marketing can be turned into high street cool for bigger profits.

[gravious]

This isn't something new.

Elvis anyone?

[dublinstep]

I dont think its bad having some sort of musical hybrids emerging, after all to my ears dubstep is where garage dropped its pace a bit to dub, with a few sprinklings of minimal techno, ragga, and some d+b along the way.

But when its being done to make money, or there's record company hype behind it, then what happens is that the original genre gets stripped of any of its original vibe and energy with a flood of photographers, 'out on the town' gossip columnists, and so on... gets plugged for ages, you get a rake of dickheads flooding in who have no interest in the music itself, or contributing to a scene (be it local or global), just going out to the 'latest' thing because they're told to.

Of course you have to find out from somewhere about new music, I just think its important you do it yourself, via going into your local record shop, listening to new stuff thats coming in, supporting small clubs that try to get off the ground in your city, listen to your local pirate radio station - instead of being spoon fed whatever someone in IPC publishing tells you - they're only out to sell copies of their poxy, on its last legs rag.

I like this music cos I went to FWD after looking at this forum, and it blew me away. Not cause the NME told me it was "the newest sound making enormous waves in the underground right now!! right now!!!" (death knell)

[the wiggle baron]

I've lived with a lot of rubbish indie type flatemates (that's not you, Chris) and exclusively they've all thought it was a load of moody depressing shite.

So, no. I can't see it working.

Same here, I even started to be called an emo by some people because of listening to dubstep

Some people dont seem to be able to grasp the difference between moody and depressing.