what don't you know about music that you wish you did?

[nowaysj]

Somebody once told me good bass players play just behind the beat, to allow drums to hit through on their own, cant say I've noticed but.

I am a horrible bass player and play all over the drums, so you might be onto something.

[xx773xx]

I wish I knew how to make the most out of the least. Some of my favorite songs (dubstep, metal, classical, EVERYTHING) have some of the simplest ideas. It feels like whether I'm jamming on my guitar or sitting on Ableton, I make things complex to bring excitement to an otherwise REALLY boring idea. I took tons of music classes throughout high school and still read up on music theory regularly, but I think its a personal battle that I have to fight. Dare I call it musical confidence? How the hell do I improve that lol.

Music is a constantly evolving art form. I have a hard to grasping the whole arrangement side of things. How long should this idea be? How long should this melody go on for? When should the bassline come in? Ect, ect, ect. I'm pretty broke rhythmically as well. I know a good beat when I hear one - getting one out of me is a different story though.

Honestly if music was easy I'd probably have no fun trying to figure it out.

[grooki]

for getting some mystical spacy sounds id definetely suggest using summ minor scale progressions and also throw some augmented scale stuff. really minor is where its at for that mystical stuff its just how u stucture ur progression that gets u to where u wanna be.

hhmmmmmyyyyeesss, keep going...


I use minor chords, inversions, but go on, just talk about it.

[kaiori breathe]

I wish I knew how to make the most out of the least. Some of my favorite songs (dubstep, metal, classical, EVERYTHING) have some of the simplest ideas. It feels like whether I'm jamming on my guitar or sitting on Ableton, I make things complex to bring excitement to an otherwise REALLY boring idea. I took tons of music classes throughout high school and still read up on music theory regularly, but I think its a personal battle that I have to fight. Dare I call it musical confidence? How the hell do I improve that lol.

If your problem is over complicating things I recommend trying to write with some self-imposed rules put on your writing. Like, you only allow yourself to write within a I-IV-V chord progression, or maybe write a hook but you're not allowed to use any more than 5 notes, or maybe limit yourself in the number of instruments you're allowing yourself to use. If you have problems with over complicating things using self imposed rules is a great way to break out of it. I used to have the same problem. Still do to a degree, I still write songs that end up having around 6 different melody lines happening at any given time but if you put rules on yourself before you start writing you'll find you don't encounter this problem as much after a while.

for getting some mystical spacy sounds id definetely suggest using summ minor scale progressions and also throw some augmented scale stuff. really minor is where its at for that mystical stuff its just how u stucture ur progression that gets u to where u wanna be.

[/quote]
Phrygian, locrian and lydian modes are also good to use for achieving mystical or spacey sounds.

[jobbanaught]

After laying down a basic tune with drums and a bassline, what options do i have to harmonize the bass? I'm sick of building simple chords on the root of the bassline and build melodies of the chord notes... But i dont know nay other way. I follow the basic music theory Ive learnt, but it really starts to bore me out

Hmmm I know what you mean. I always try and do chord progressions first (after I get a beat down), then right my bassline to fit that. Gives you call options for putting bass as root, or whatever notes make up your chords. Also having an idea of the chord progression means you can split the notes over a few instruments and voice your chords really interestingly. E.g. have bass playing the 3, keys playing the 1, 3, and 6, and synth playing the 5 whatever. I think having an idea of the musicality you want in your track before you start progressing, arranging helps. I often write the chord progression on simple as horrible sounding keys, just to get the music part sounding nice on its own. Then use the vibe I'm feeling to choose/make sounds.

With melodies I find you can be more free, of course you don't want any horrible clashes but if it sounds right it is in my books. So sometimes I won't stick rigidly to the notes of the chords.

Sorry if that doesn't really help, I'm still starting in this music theory game.

Splitting the chords over several instruments is a good idea Thanks mate, gotta go home and try it out

[Bipolar]

I'd really like to know how to put emotion into a melody, and why it works.. Atm i can enter random notes till something works, but id like to know what notes i need and how to progress the melody before hand if that makes sence, cuz right now its just hit and hope

And i aint got a midi contoller either so even when i get a melody in my head its a nightmare tryna map it with the mouse on the seq. (feels like im playing minesweeper or some shit sometimes ), although its my 21st tomorrow, so should have some cash to spend on one

Im guessing the awnsers to this would have something to do with music theory?

[SesG]

I'd really like to know how to put emotion into a melody, and why it works.. Atm i can enter random notes till something works, but id like to know what notes i need and how to progress the melody before hand if that makes sence, cuz right now its just hit and hope

And i aint got a midi contoller either so even when i get a melody in my head its a nightmare tryna map it with the mouse on the seq. (feels like im playing minesweeper or some shit sometimes ), although its my 21st tomorrow, so should have some cash to spend on one

Im guessing the awnsers to this would have something to do with music theory?

I dont have a midi either, first thing I'm gonna buy once I get my production PC nailed XD I just jam stuff out on the keyboard though, latency is shit but you can touch it up once the midi is in your sequencer

[Ldizzy]

I'm really interested in the fact that there's very few replies about rhythm here.

Me too! I'm entirely rhythm oriented right now..

I need to learn how to create wonky grooves and cut up nice quality breaks. (it's hard!!)
Then tracking down superior clap samples and layering them to make those legendary dubstep snares!
Then applying proper amounts of compression + transient shapers to each sample... bussing, routing, parallel compression.. all that stuff still seems really hard.

On the DSF, it seems that we're all at very different levels with theory.. some people can't discern notes from each other, others are writing textbook quality treatises on harmony and progressions. It's cool! My opinion tho is that bare sound design is actually more central to EDM than traditional theory. Pulling off club-worthy beats and basslines with just a computer...that is a mad technical and nerdy feat and one that is more aided by knowledge of drumming and groove patterns than scales. I don't want to generalize tho.. cuz not all of us want to make hench dnb stuff.

But let it be known that there are sad stories of people who dedicate decades to musical theory on a variety of instruments, and actually lose their ability to compose freely because of the structure they impose upon other people's work and their own. Everything in moderation!

i come from a soulful hip hop background.. u know, the flying lotus type... the weird drum shuffles... so.. altho i suck at quantizing and swung drums.. im very rythm sensitive...

tho, i suck big time at melodies... but ive understood one thing.. melodies ARE a part of rythm... the frequencies u write ur tune in and the inversions u use are a very important part of ur melody..

so i guess it just means u have to kinda learn both ahahahahah

[dav.id]

I struggle with giving each and every sound in my mix it's own little space where they can sound the best as possible

[press]

i wish i had abetter understanding of key/tuning etc. i can tell when things clash or sound shit, but i dont ever really know why or what cord or key, songs or notes are. a better understanding would cut down on trial and error time.

[narcissus]

to all you guys who wish you knew more about music theory...

I would say you should just get on the piano and start playing. you can learn a lot just by learning songs and jamming around making up your own stuff. that's really the only way you're going to learn what notes go with each other.

[deadly_habit]

recently i'm wanting to know more of the math and science behind acoustics and acoustic treatment.

[SunkLo]

Or non-quantized swing. Does being milliseconds early/late really affect the listener subconsciously? Obviously real drummers do this because they're human, not playing off a grid. But does anyone really notice if its quantized or not (within reason obviously, not talking about super wonky stuff which is clearly all over the shop)? Do the really awesome jazz/funk/whatever drummers consciously attempt to play early / late?

Somebody once told me good bass players play just behind the beat, to allow drums to hit through on their own, cant say I've noticed but.

Yeah man, do they ever. Playing in the pocket comes down to minute differences in time. The bass thing is true sometimes as well, also applies to other percussion and drums. Good trick if you're making house or have a beat going where the snare and kick hit at the same time, bring the snare a bit back or forward. Gives things a wider flam type sound, though it's subtle enough for the listener not to notice apart from, "wow those drums sound nice and fat" Applicable to all sorts of situations.

If you guys want to be exposed to advanced music, listen to jazz or funk. Arguably the most advanced music in many areas from rhythm, to harmony, to progression. You'll pick up a lot from listening to how a tight band sits in the spot and various progressions, modulations, harmonic and melodic ideas, etc.

On the topic of key changes, I usually sneak them in through chord extensions. You can make ambiguous pivot chords by keeping the fundamental root notes of the chord in your existing key while throwing in altered extensions that fit into your new key. Invert that group of notes and reharmonize it to a couple other different chords so there's a bit of progression and it doesn't switch so suddenly. You'll end up with those altered notes being the important tones of a chord, with notes from the old key acting as extensions, voice lead your way to another core chord of the new key to establish tonality, bam! Smooth key change.

Dominant chords, cycle of fifths back-cycling, etc. are useful. Diminished chords are great because you can modulate them up and down thirds and they can transition to dominant 7 chords very easily by altering only one note. This means you can get to any parallel key in intervals of a minor third. Combined with tritone substitution and secondary dominants and you've got the ability to hop to pretty much any key with only a couple chords.

OT: I'm pretty solid on harmonic and rhythmic theory but I'd like to be able to pull all this stuff out of my ass on the fly without premeditation. Something that only years of experience as a jazz improviser will teach me I guess...

[nowaysj]

On the topic of key changes, I usually sneak them in through chord extensions. You can make ambiguous pivot chords by keeping the fundamental root notes of the chord in your existing key while throwing in altered extensions that fit into your new key. Invert that group of notes and reharmonize it to a couple other different chords so there's a bit of progression and it doesn't switch so suddenly. You'll end up with those altered notes being the important tones of a chord, with notes from the old key acting as extensions, voice lead your way to another core chord of the new key to establish tonality, bam! Smooth key change.

Dominant chords, cycle of fifths back-cycling, etc. are useful. Diminished chords are great because you can modulate them up and down thirds and they can transition to dominant 7 chords very easily by altering only one note. This means you can get to any parallel key in intervals of a minor third. Combined with tritone substitution and secondary dominants and you've got the ability to hop to pretty much any key with only a couple chords.

[AxeD]

How to get that ffin audio 8 dj to work...

But seriously I wish I would know how to play the sax. I can play percussion and bass/guitar but I would really like to learn to play the saxophone.

[SunkLo]

On the topic of key changes, I usually sneak them in through chord extensions. You can make ambiguous pivot chords by keeping the fundamental root notes of the chord in your existing key while throwing in altered extensions that fit into your new key. Invert that group of notes and reharmonize it to a couple other different chords so there's a bit of progression and it doesn't switch so suddenly. You'll end up with those altered notes being the important tones of a chord, with notes from the old key acting as extensions, voice lead your way to another core chord of the new key to establish tonality, bam! Smooth key change.

Dominant chords, cycle of fifths back-cycling, etc. are useful. Diminished chords are great because you can modulate them up and down thirds and they can transition to dominant 7 chords very easily by altering only one note. This means you can get to any parallel key in intervals of a minor third. Combined with tritone substitution and secondary dominants and you've got the ability to hop to pretty much any key with only a couple chords.

Yeah I realized that as I was writing it
Sounds a bit like something Moxxie would post eh? Hah, Google is your friend I guess. To explain in layman's terms would take many a page and would still risk sounding like that bitch

What the hell anyways? Even if she was speaking some tribal language, I doubt it would consist of the exact same sounds over and over with slightly differing inflections.
"Why the fuck do you have the same answer for every question?"
The other girl seems to know exactly what's up too, they must be on the same chemicals...

[nowaysj]

Yeah I realized that as I was writing it

Just like the interviewer, I'm sure there are people here who know perfectly well what you're talking about. As for me, yeah.

[SunkLo]

Actually good time to point out, I think I remember someone asking a couple pages back about theory books. Mark Levine's Jazz Theory and Jazz Piano books are awesome, though you should have a decent grasp of standard theory before you read. If you feel like going apeshit, George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization (hey I said apeshit ) is pretty intense and interesting. I haven't even finished it yet but it changed how I view harmony. Bit dry at times, but if you've got an interest in jazz theory, Russell was basically the pioneer of the modal approach that Miles Davis and Coltrane were grinding on.

[SunkLo]

Ah, something I wish I understood better is quartal harmony, or chords built around the interval of a fourth. I've found myself using a few of them inside larger chords in this passage I've been working on and I wish I better understood how to use them and transition between them. They're fairly non functional in standard harmony but when picking out notes by ear I've been putting them into some key change progressions (like I tried to explain in my theory gibberish post above) They have a vague tonal center so I guess that's why I like using them for transitions. Trying to learn how to use them sucks though because they can't be rationalized by tonal harmony that well other than as a suspension.

I have a feeling my noggin will be hurting soon
Been looping 16 bars of what sounds like a Rhodes player on acid in some places, trying to find harmony that doesn't sound toooo outside yet still makes the transitions I need.

[Bipolar]

recently i'm wanting to know more of the math and science behind acoustics and acoustic treatment.

Looking at specificly -emotion- in this way is what i try to concour every single day.