Music theory question again

[daft cunt]

So I'm making this tune but I can't figure out which key it's in.
The bassline is playing mostly G# & A with a few B, C & D# here & there... I checked all natural, harmonic & melodic minor scales and none involve all these notes (and no, I don't think there are any wrong note )
So I guess there are what they call accidentals somewhere but I don't know which one(s).
I can post a clip but I didn't want the thread to look like a feedback request.

[3za]

I am not a expert, but this is what I think...

Where you have only got 5 notes, so far you could fit them in to a few scales. If you add a D, F, and, F# you would get a A diminished scale, I would most likely use this have you have already got the A diminished chord (A, C, and, D#). You could also Try adding a E, and, F you would get a A hungarian minor scale, their are a few more you could try.

You could just write the track with the notes you are using now, and call it your own scale

[-[2]DAY_-]

Sounds to me like you're in A harmonic minor with the D# as an accidental, providing extra tension as a flat 5, would likely sound nice resolving up to a natural 5 (E) before returning to the tonic. But I didn't hear the riff. So who knows...

[kaiori breathe]

E,F,G#,A,B,C,D#
It's the Byzantine Scale

[daft cunt]

Cheers guys!

The byzantine scale seems to be a particular one chords wise
I wonder... If I play chords of another scale and they sound good with the bassline, does it mean my musical sense is junk or is it just a normal thing in music theory (if so, can you elaborate) ?

[kaiori breathe]

Cheers guys!

The byzantine scale seems to be a particular one chords wise
I wonder... If I play chords of another scale and they sound good with the bassline, does it mean my musical sense is junk or is it just a normal thing in music theory (if so, can you elaborate) ?

To be honest, I've never sat down and said "I'm going to write using the byzantine scale today" so it's not something I would really know how to work into a song. But I will say that using chords from another scale makes musical sense, pretty much every song by Nirvana, or any grunge/prog rock band, ever does this. They're called borrowed chords.

The song Miserlou uses the byzantine scale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPSDH4hdS3Y
So you could always give that a listen and try to see what's going on with regards to the chords there.

[narcissus]

don't trip over labels.. music theory is only words and symbols that describe the actual sound waves and feelings... if this bassline is doin something in your soul then quite literally, nothing else matters.. that said.. you should at least know what you're doing in your own tunes.. i mean did you just pick notes at random?

[AllNightDayDream]

E,F,G#,A,B,C,D#
It's the Byzantine Scale

spot on

[Depone]

do what sounds good to you, dont get caught up in 'what key is this?'. Although I agree that some music theory is necessary and essential to making coherent melodic dubstep, but not the usual midrange basses.

[daft cunt]

Yeah I understand that the point of music theory isn't to put notes on a grid and limit yourself to that. Until now, I have always done it by ear but oftenly I have to struggle to find the right notes for the bassline after I made a nice intro or the other way around, that's why thinking inside the box from time to time won't hurt.
As you said, Depone, it's all about coherent melodic music.

Also, there's this new amazing tool in Renoise which for any given scale gives you all the notes and chords. It makes composing and learning music theory a breeze but you still have to know which key you're in

Anyway, thanks for the insights guys!

[TM45]

Musical theory is all about finding that note that doesn't work and understanding why. If it doesn't sound right to you, how do you make it sound right. Instead of guessing for hours, just use Science. (Which is what musical theory is, just written by arty-type people)

I always use this website http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php

Great for finding what key you're in, or even trying a key you've never thought of using. Sometimes you get amazing sounds. It has a great chord section also. I'm sure thereis probably a similar website based around piano, but I'm a guitarist. It's easy to use anyway

[FSTZ]

when in doubt I use this interactive piano chord / key chart

http://www.8notes.com/resources/notefin ... chords.asp

my theory is shit nowadays

[daft cunt]

when in doubt I use this interactive piano chord / key chart

http://www.8notes.com/resources/notefin ... chords.asp

my theory is shit nowadays

Thanks! I already knew the chord house (similar website) but the formula thing on this one is going to be useful!

[DJ Crackle]

my theory is shit nowadays

Same. Anyway, a few things to look remember.

1) just because all of the notes fall into a specific set of chords/a key, does not mean you're in that key. The notes that feel likes root notes are the first things you're gonna look at. While that generally coincides fairly tightly with the bass notes, you'll usually have the bass straying away from root notes to keep it interesting. All 12 chromatic notes CAN play a role anywhere, so just because it's there doesn't mean it's a dominant (as is important... not in the theory meaning of the word. heh) note in your key/scale/chord/whatever you're trying to figure out.

2) it's music THEORY, not music rules, music fact, or anything like that.

With that being said, I'd like to reiterate that my theory is pretty shit now, and that I can't really dedicate the concentration while at work to help you figure this out. Heh.

[DJ Crackle]

but if you post the track, or portions, I can take a listen while I'm at home and get back at ya

[daft cunt]

my theory is shit nowadays

Same. Anyway, a few things to look remember.

1) just because all of the notes fall into a specific set of chords/a key, does not mean you're in that key. The notes that feel likes root notes are the first things you're gonna look at. While that generally coincides fairly tightly with the bass notes, you'll usually have the bass straying away from root notes to keep it interesting. All 12 chromatic notes CAN play a role anywhere, so just because it's there doesn't mean it's a dominant (as is important... not in the theory meaning of the word. heh) note in your key/scale/chord/whatever you're trying to figure out.

2) it's music THEORY, not music rules, music fact, or anything like that.

With that being said, I'd like to reiterate that my theory is pretty shit now, and that I can't really dedicate the concentration while at work to help you figure this out. Heh.

Thanks for the insight.

This is the tune. I used notes from the ghaitas loop of the intro for the bassline but I'm not sure they're in the same key and that's something I'm interested in if you can tell. The bassline is the priority tho
Soundcloud

[TM45]

2) it's music THEORY, not music rules, music fact, or anything like that.

Actually, it's all proven science, merely described by "artistic" people. You could rename it 'sonic theory', include wavelengths, frequencies, harmonics, compressions and much more, and it would do exactly the same thing, but sound sciency . It is music rules/fact, however most people only understand/are aware of classical theory, where these rules are boring. Modern music theory includes so much more, mainly because now we know why 'x and y sounds good together' rather than just hearing it. It's a very scientific process.

[DJ Crackle]

2) it's music THEORY, not music rules, music fact, or anything like that.

Actually, it's all proven science, merely described by "artistic" people. You could rename it 'sonic theory', include wavelengths, frequencies, harmonics, compressions and much more, and it would do exactly the same thing, but sound sciency . It is music rules/fact, however most people only understand/are aware of classical theory, where these rules are boring. Modern music theory includes so much more, mainly because now we know why 'x and y sounds good together' rather than just hearing it. It's a very scientific process.

Touche.
But the point was simply don't get caught up writing under the "rules" of classical music theory you've learned

Anyway. Get off in an hour, will come back with my 2 cents in a bit

[3za]

I see music theory as away to analyse music, not to write it.

At the heart of music it's all maths imho.

[drake89]

Touche.
But the point was simply don't get caught up writing under the "rules" of classical music theory you've learned

Anyway. Get off in an hour, will come back with my 2 cents in a bit

This is truth, but you also have to know the rules in order to bend/break them. It's much easier for me to compose now that I know, for example, that the leading tone creates melodic tension.