Hardware sampler owners

[Ldizzy]

Ive looked everywhere and i can't seem to find a thread uniting people who actually own hardware samplers and who are ready to share knowledge on their way of integrating them to their work..

nowadays digital often-all-in-a-box home rigs mostly lead to a very modern type of workflow that may turn the thougt of integrating actual hardware samplers somewhere in the signal chain into something a little obsolete...

any success story about people using samplers somewhere in the middle of their digital world? tell us !

background info : ive produced detroit style rap beats for a while before coming on these forums... using an mpc 3000 and lots of vinyls... however, the machine died and i had to send it to repairing.. itll soon be repaired by mister forat himself (an mpc 3000 mogul) and ill recieve it by the middle of january if everything goes according to my plans.. its been a year and a half since i didnt touch the thing... thinking of it inspired me to post this..

NOW SPIT THE KNOWLEDGE U SHATBAGS

[Ldizzy]

[deadly_habit]

whats to discuss they exist for when you're after a certain sound that soft can't give
ie: emu z-plane

[upstateface]

My akai s2800 is a sex machine, and im getting an emu e6400 asap

[Ldizzy]

^ aha dope ahaha

DH.. im french speaking, id need u to rephrase that :S

[Ldizzy]

Ive read a lot on the mpc 3000 and logic not being able to sync with each other... i hope ill find a workaround as these are my two tools of choice... once i recieve my mpc i wish itll help me increase my workflow for punching in drumlines inside the box (since i dont own a midi keyboard yet)...

ill also try the old method, sampling stuff from my daw, that has been tweaked numerous times and processed till it sounds the way i want and then integrate killer drumkits to my mpc...

ill probably use it for resampling purposes too... ... anyone has a similar sampler ?

[deadly_habit]

i don't see why they wouldn't be able to sync with each other with 2 way midi communication

[Beat Scientist]

[Beat Scientist]

Looking for hardware sampler users eh?

Akai MPC5000, S5000, S20
Korg ES1mk2
EMU ESI-4000 Turbo.

... A few points to cover (having looked over the few replies so far....

Right first off
MIDI syncing ...Your sampler should syncronize with any PC no problems, however remember your PC (unless specifically geared for audio) is not designed for music, its designed for crunching numbers ...to minimise delays setting in or jitter make sure your Sampler is set to master (and the PC is following the samplers lead) ...a PC processing-wise is shit compared to the sampler and will inevitably drift.
You can also minimise lag setting in by inserting a few bars of scilence before the track start (think of it as a count-in) ...sounds like bollocks but it works.

Quality... The audio coming out of your sampler is far superior in quality than that of a PC running the best program with the best soundcard. So of you want a bass that will kill, and have the time to learn, and are a total audiophile you'll probably want to sample/export some true-tones (Sine, Saw, Square...) and use your sampler are a synthesizer. Every sampler has its own characterists ...bit rate is no gague for quality.


++

RE: Dadly habit (on midi)
It has a Midi Port, therefore it can handle Midi. 2-way comunication isnt always nessesary, for simple trigering sounds/fx/automation you only need Midi out from your controller (in this case a PC, not a hardware sequencer) to your sampler. ...If you wanted to have the sampler is 'master' and the PC as 'slave' yet still use a software sequencer then you will need 2 cables one for each signal direction.

RE: Ldizzy (on MPC3000 problems)
Cant give an exact answer as I dont use Logic (Cubase all the way!) but when something fails to sync etc I usualy check the following:
MPC settings (set up right? are both set to slave etc?)
Midi Router ((is used)) reset and try again (maybe requires reboot of PC too)
Software sequencer (Check all setting match what the MPC is looking for) midi/mmc codes set right?


...With all that said I should probably mention its been a LONG time since i did some bass programming on a hardware sampler (so I wont be writing any how-to threads), I mainly use the hardware for drums/rhythms, bit crushing, creative sampling (aka fucking around with noise), resampling, capturing my samples and where the MPC is concerned sequencing.

[Phigure]

friend of mine's got an Ensoniq ASR X Pro

[mks]

I have an Akai S5000 that I have been using for years. I have to admit that it's easier to program a software sampler, but those Akai's do have a certain sound to them, especially with the timestretching.

EZ

[gr0nt]

I barely post, and when I do, its pretty much an autobiography, so bear with me.

As a student of Computer Science/Electrical Engineering at my respective State University, hardware samplers have a special place in my heart. I fancy myself somewhat of a 'collector' of unloved 80's technology. I've been producing for 15 years, and software wasn't an option when i started. So, as a big boy, I'm now able to afford all the shit I wanted back in the 90's, but couldn't afford. Now, I'm on to Ableton Live since version 4, but still use most of these pieces to get that little extra something. Below is a list of the hardware samplers I currently own, followed by a few words on each.

Ensoniq Mirage and EPS, Roland S-550, Korg DSS-1, Casio SK-1, E-Mu ESI2000, and Yamaha RS7000.

Ensoniq Mirage - My first sampler ever. Traded it in 1999 for a Korg Poly-800. Repurchased in the year 2010, this time rack, as I missed the sound of it so much; decided I couldn't live without it. 8-bit fidelity, real Analog Filters. This is a piece of hardware that truly can't be emulated. Yes, I've tried Morgana, no contest. Favorite uses: Resampling various snares to get them gritty. Very hard to explain unless you've done it or heard it. Makes your snare noisier, punchier, bigger. 8-bit fidelity has less dynamic range by a lot than 16/24 bit, causing the sample to be naturally compressed. I will use a VEH snare, for ex, on a track, then resample a single hit of the snare in my track. I will add the sample to the drum rack right next to the original sample, and use them side by side, either together or alternating. Another favorite use is sampling an FM bass into the Mirage, making a proper patch, and using it instead of the software version. It just sounds so fucking aggressive. Kicks, OTOH, I don't like as much from the Mirage. Some kind of weird aliasing which leaves you with a raspy beater sound. Strange cause bass synths on this thing are boss. I would call its uses "highly specialized" - there are way better all around samplers. And I find it an absolute breeze to program, faster than "non hex" samplers. While I do know hexadecimal because of my EE background, I think the real reason is, that there arent many parameters on this thing compared to modern samplers.

Ensoniq EPS - Can u believe I picked this up on CL in December 2010 (maybe even the same day the OP posted) for $50 (30 pounds)? And by 50 bucks, I mean 50 bucks for an Ensoniq EPS fully expanded with 4x memory AND THE ELUSIVE SCSI expansion, a hardshell gig case, and about 25 Ensoniq factory samples. Best deal I got on gear, EVER. Thanks, Bruce, if youre watching. Oh yeah - It was constantly crashing ERROR 144. I'm sure that had something to do with the price. Anyways, being the diligent CS/EE student, I fixed that fucker the first weekend. Favorite uses: ATTENTION: This thing can do Transwave Synthesis, aka TRUE Wavetable synthesis. You know the "WT-Position" knob in Massive? BINGO - except here- you use your own samples. I will make a patch in FM8 or Operator, record the audio (Middle C) to a different track, tweak the patch, record, repeat. Then when I'm done, I cut them all to approx. .5 Seconds (just enough to get a nice single cycle loop point really), and arrange them all sequentially on the same audio track in ableton. Say 8 variations on the same patch, 8 waves files sequentially on the same audio track. Then sample this into the EPS, set a short loop time (relative to the waveform) and assign 'Loop start' and 'length' to the Mod Wheel. Even cooler when using evolving pad sounds. The only other pieces of sampling hardware that I know for do this are Ensoniq EPS, EPS 16+, and ASR-10. It's really, really fucking cool if you know what you're doing, not just putting random bits of shit in there, but that would probably work too. Another thing: This is the cheapest you can get polyphonic aftertouch for. If you don't know what that means, it won't matter to you anyways. Bottom line: Anything and everything sounds good thru this sampler. A great all-arounder. Sampling is extremely fast, I get immediate results with this thing. I find it extremely relevant in 2011 for my productions. Can't say that about many (or any?) other 25+ year old computers. Pros: Mono mode with glide Cons: No resonance on the digital filter. But the filter still sounds great.

Roland S-550: 1U rack mount sampler with Mouse and Monitor. Looks pretty rad with those CGA graphics (480x320 maybe?), has Unison mode with detune. The best digital filters with resonance I may have ever heard. The filters are really really nice, light years beyond the Ableton 'Sampler' filters. Too bad I don't use this thing much anymore, it's no where near as productive as the EPS. Sampling takes a long time even with the mouse, its just not as user friendly as Ensoniq. But there entire Roland sample library for the thing is available FOR FREE FROM ROLAND. That was a nice touch. Still relevant in 2011? Not so much. Although it really does sound great, the UI leaves me flat out uninspired.

Korg DSS-1: 12-bit native, again REAL analog filters. Playback can be adjusted from 5-bits to 12-bits which is very cool, it's just not that usable. Also, some guys just released an update for this thing if you will, an upgrade, which gives it 28mb of memory or something, and the ability to use USB storage, and all kind of engine upgrades like glide and all kinda crazy shit. Do you think these guys woulda wasted their time if this 20+ year old sampler was garbage? This is basically a 2-OSC analog synthesizer that uses 12bit samples in place of oscilllators. So you can use 2 different samples for each OSC and detune, sync, everything. This thing really excels at Pad's and leads. The particular 12bit DAC with the analog filters makes everything sound "cream" and "sparkle". The keybed feels great, responds well. There is a separate Amp/filter per voice, and two built in digital delays (which are modulatable). It has a quite unique sound, feels very high-fidelity. Also can sound extremely lo-fi, gritty and industrial when you start pitching stuff wayyy down. Biggest drawback: No Glide (unless you buy the new upgrades for it). Still relevant in 2011? Absolutely, and seems to be enjoying a bit of a revival. I use it mostly for "the new 80's" textures and pads, as I like to call them. Think Vangelis. Love the action on the joystick too.

Casio SK-1 - A toy. The cheapest sampler (retail price) maybe ever. If you get one, circuit bend it yourself, as it will be more in tune with your tastes. Interestingly enough, has Glide/portomento, which even the DSS-1 and many other samples from the 80's, don't have. Ironic that the toy has it. I suspect there are lots of possibilities here, but I'm just not in love with the circuit bent sound. Someone who is more into that would love it of course. Still relevant in 2011? If so, not much longer. I see circuit bent stuff, in general, as an outlet for people without solid any skill to make cool noises. No flaming here, just kinda the way I see it. But I'm sure theres gold to be had here in the technique of sampling, circuit bending, resampling.


E-Mu ESI2000 My first real sampler, bought new. Cost me 700$ I think in the 90s? As I said, software wasnt an option. Best thing I got out of the deal was the E-Mu Emulator Standards and More Emulator Standards and EIIIX sample cd's. I've imported them into Ableton as sampler presets, and most of them still sound great. Anyways, this thing does sound good, has 19 filter types, and other features. I just don't use it. The UI, is, once again, uninspiring as hell. It's been sitting stored in a rack for 5 solid years now, probably more like 7. I hold on to it because its worth 50$ if I am lucky. For that price, I'd rather have it as a toy or spare parts. So for now, it sits in an old rack, covered and out of sight. Still relevant in 2011? Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Yamaha RS7000 I think it was designed as a competitor to the MPC2000. I bought one new in 2001, $1300, eventually fully expanded it with the AIEB-2 digital card (200$) and 64mb of ram (20$). Anyone ever used these? Please chime in. I don't know if it's because I spent so much money on it, or if it's because it's the hardware piece I 'came up' on, but this is one of the most inspiring tools I've used for EBM. I still use it for my drums to this day. There really is way too much to go into here, but lets just say people buy the Akai MPC2000/3000 for the "feel/timing" and the same thing with the Roland R8. Why does the RS7000 never come up in these discussions? I'm quite sure it blows MPC out of the water on timing, the grove function lets you offset notes in either direction for any and all beats, offsets include time, velocity, and note in either direction, and its PER TRACK, not PER Pattern, So technically, you can have 16 different custom timings on a pattern. Like your snare can have its own custom timing (groove) while the kick has its own distinct timing groove. AFAIK, the MPC has preset timings that you apply to a pattern, not custom timings. Never got that deep into it, MPC owners? I use this thing mainly for drums. I don't know, the drums just sound better, more realistic, and humanized on this thing than my best work using ableton with drum rack. Very quick to get results. I have the S/PDIF output of my soundcard attached to the S/PDIF input on the rs7000, and the RS dig out to soundcard dig in, so I can resample anything in realtime without having to unplug/plug anything. On the fly if you will. It will also do live resampling, like ReCycle on the fly, near realtime. Recycle your own beats... make a beat resample and recycle. It's also a really bad ass performance instrument, with too many features to explain the benefit of. I use it live with my DJ Setup, as well as in the studio. 2 x Technics 1200 MKII's, Denon DN-X500, Yamaha RS7000 and laptop(rane sl-3 with SSL). If anyone else uses this thing, please please discuss. I find it totally indispensable for rock solid timing, reliability, and as a live performance instrument.


If anyone has used the RS7000 at all, please do tell about your experiences.

[-[2]DAY_-]

nice post, that bit about looping all the tweaked wavecycles and selecting with the modwheel... inspiring and ingenious

[-[2]DAY_-]

edit.. it's so weird being the one whose post was doubled..... I def. didn't click submit twice

[gr0nt]

I'm glad someone could follow my technique, because I really suck at this language thing.

But yeah if it costs less than $150 bucks, grab that Ensoniq EPS yo!

[-[2]DAY_-]

you explained it perfectly, and until i find one of those things I'm planning on attempting it in reason's nnxt. Thanks very much

[nowaysj]

Yamaha RS7000this is one of the most inspiring tools I've used for EBM.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard this. There was a time when I was gonna get one of these, I regret not picking it up. You don't see these used hardly ever. There is a reason for that. Good post bro.

==

I've got 3 samplers right now, sort of by mistake. The asr-x pro, sp 404sx, and the MicroSampler.

What seems to be happening in terms of workflow, is I'm loading sounds into the samplers, and just doing sound design and making beats. Then, I usually move that stuff to the pc as audio, and start to put sections into songs. I've got kind of toy-y samplers, so you can't really put whole tracks together with them.

I'd like to do more out of the box, but for the time being, this is how it is going to be.

[upstateface]

I LOVE MY HARDWARE SAMPLERS

[contakt321]

I haven't seen/used the Yamaha RS7000, but the Yamaha SU700 I believe was the predecessor and that thing is a beast. If you haven't yet, you absolutely need to see Ghosts on Tape play live. He uses 2 Yamaha SU700s and a mixing board, and goes back to back playing off of both machines (no midi) and it's INCREDIBLE.

He has played TURRBOTAX® twice now, and both times, he without a doubt stole the show.

I have an E-Mu SP1200 and an Akai MPC2000

If you don't know, the SP1200 is pretty much the ultimate sampler for drums, the swing on the machine is incredible, and it's 12 bit, w/ 3 filters - it sounds incredible, and sorry, no emulation can match. It's not just about reducing bits, it's also the trademark "ringing" sound the SP has when you sample into it. I resample almost everything into mine.

Lately, I haven't had the MPC2000 hooked up, but I plan to when I rearrange my studio and get a soundcard with more ins. Incredible intuitive, still one of the best sequencers (in some ways better than the newer MPCs), and the converters add a bit of compression and punch to sounds, very slight coloration, but it's there. I am actually planning to use this for drums and sequence my synths and just record audio into my DAW (like I used to) when I set this back up.

I will say, I am in the market for an Akai S-900, S-950, or maybe a Rack Emax or a Roland S-760. Why?
I love the sound of 12 bit samplers, they just have something to them that works for me. The SP1200 is only mono, and has a max of 2.5 seconds per sound, and only 10 seconds overall, so I am looking for something that I can use longer samples with (and in stereo).

[upstateface]

How much did you pay for your sp1200 contakt?