how to learn song structure

[mindcontrol]

a lot of people have commented that I need to learn song structure, how have you guys gone about it?

16/32 bar intro
64 bar main body 1
16 bar breakdown
49 bar main body 2
16 bar outro

2-16-4-32-2-32-4-16-4-64-16

?

[tavravlavish]

just listen to songs man, any type of music listen to how it is structured, it is pretty interesting and there is a wide variety of how you can structure or songs, each gives its own affect on the listening experience.

Now unless your catering to a DJ (wich iz hlla ghay ), I would recommend experimenting with all kinds of structures. make a song that is just one big build up of different sound or the opposite! put the climax of the song at the very start then have the magic be how it all falls down into nothing. Make your first drop totally different than what the intro made the listener assume was going to happen, then spend the rest of the song eventually leading back to what the intro sounded like, kind of a A to E to D to C to E to B to C back to A hahaha I don't know make your own rules! have fun be creative.

I'm reminding myself of Jeremy from peep show right now, hah. I think I'm probably the Jeremy of this forum... Besides the fact that his songs are fucking hilarious and mine aren't very funny, at least I don't think they are..

Hope that helpedddddd

[tavravlavish]

Listen to linkin park.. use their structure it seems to work.. hahah or nickleback.

[kaiori breathe]

a lot of people have commented that I need to learn song structure, how have you guys gone about it?

16/32 bar intro
64 bar main body 1
16 bar breakdown
49 bar main body 2
16 bar outro

2-16-4-32-2-32-4-16-4-64-16

?

49 seems a bit odd, where does that come from? Usually people work with multiples of 4 or 8. Sometimes weird things like that suit the song though.

The rest seems OK, I'd extend your breakdown a bit, seems a bit short by comparison to your two main sections. I'd double it up personally.

Here's a really standard template I turn to a lot. Bear in mind I like symmetry so this is kind of influenced by that:

32 bar intro * 64 drop 32 breakdown * 64 drop 32 outro.

* optional 1/2, 1 or 2 bars of nothing to sort of build tension before you drop - only if it fits minds you, never do it just to have it there.

If you wanna make it more interesting

32 bar intro consisting of :16 bar intro, 16 bar intro with variation,
*
64 bar drop consisting of : 24 bar drop, 8 bar reduced drop (simpler percussion maybe take out pads an really let the bass/melody lines breathe) - my themes in drops are usually very simple 8 bar themes that get repeated, so here what you're seeing is 3 recurrences of the same theme then one that gets reduced to emphasis the theme - repeat 24 bar drop with variation, repeat 8 bar reduced drop with variation

32 bar breakdown consisting of : 16 bar breakdown, then the same 16 bars but with a feel of a build up, so maybe put in some filtered hi-hats with a white noise sweep on the last 8 bars (that's just an example of one way to build it up)
*
64 bar drop repeated

32 bar outro

*Again optional 1/2, 1, or 2 bars of empty space to build tension.

You've really got to find a structure or a few structures that suit you and suit the song you're writing, that structure won't fit everything I write, often I reduce sections or increase sections of instead of a breakdown I'll have a new theme or something. So always keep the song in mind and don't be too rigorous.

Best thing to do is to listen to the artists you want to write like and see what they're doing then put your own little twists on it and your own personality into it.

Your own personality will play an integral role in your structuring of your tracks. For instance like I said I love symmetry I can't stand something not being symmetrical so on my second drop it has to look the same as my first so no variation for me, and they have to be the same length or it makes me die inside, which some would consider a weakness, but that's a part of how I write and it has influenced the way I structure my tracks I need to make things interesting enough to repeat a second time without variation. So if you can create a structure that avoids pitfalls like that you'll be doing well. Equally numbers like 49 make me die inside I have to work according to 8s, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, I can get away with those 1 or 2 bar breaks without getting too anal about it every now and then but I'd never do it every song or it would give me an ulcer from the stress of looking at it, lol.

So I guess what I'm saying is people's structures are based really heavily on who they are as people and what suits them best. So listen to artists you want to be like, listen to whats happening, write it down if it helps, then try and emulate it, and add your own twists to it, and eventually you'll just slip into a few set structures that really suit you and your writing style, of course when you get to that stage you'll need to make sure you don't get stuck in a rut writing the same song over and over again, but you can worry about that when the time comes

Hope that helps to some degree.

[Sharmaji]

listen to loads of different songs/genres and TAKE NOTES. pen & pencil style.

pretty much every pop song you hear on the radio goes 8 bar intro/16bar verse/bar prechorus/8 bar chorus/16bar verse/8 bar prechorus/8 or 16 bar chorus/8 bar bridge/ and then either repeat v1/prechorus/chorus or just out on the choruses.

dance music, less rules but the overall arc of energy is key. "katy on a mission" is a fantastically arranged tune-- check out how the ups & downs are built into that tune.

i made a note of high contrast's "Racing Green" back in 04-- another fantastic arrangement... if you're cool with your songs being six and a half minutes long.

[nowaysj]

a lot of people have commented that I need to learn song structure

Whose song structure do you need to learn, your song structure or other's song structure?

[kaiori breathe]

i made a note of high contrast's "Racing Green" back in 04-- another fantastic arrangement... if you're cool with your songs being six and a half minutes long.

+1, I spent a lot of time looking at as much of his stuff as I could when I got into electronic music at first, great producer, great sense of arrangement and structure. Different genre from dubstep obviously, but still I'm sure there's loads to learn from him.

[mindcontrol]

Thanks these posts are gold, and have given me some good insight.. working in 8s seems logical. 140bpm is about 12 seconds.

So 32 bar intro, 64 bar drop, 32 breakdown, 64 bar drop, 32 bar outro. 8bars @140bpm is about 12 seconds. 32 @ 42seconds

What are the techniques generally used in dubstep for each.. intro, drop, breakdown, drop, outro?
"a white noise sweep on the last 8 bars (that's just an example of one way to build it up)"


I'll try and find some songs I like to study

[mindcontrol]

here is one