Arizona Congresswoman shot in Tuscon

[tyson]

Giving extremely harsh sentences to people caught with illegal firearms sounds like a step in the right direction. Remember, there is one legally owned gun per person in the US and these weapons aren't the problem. The problem is the unregistered guns and severe penalties for getting caught with one would help.

One other thing I want to mention is that the only guns I'm seriously afraid of are the ones carried by the police. That probably has a lot to do with my location more than anything.

[knell]

yep, the situation needs reform, not banning..

to put it in context... try banning guns in South Africa... herp that'll fix everything the homicide rate will plummet derp derp

[Ayatollah]

yep, the situation needs reform, not banning..

to put it in context... try banning guns in South Africa... herp that'll fix everything the homicide rate will plummet derp derp

yes let's put things in context by using the example of one of the most economically unequal countries in the world where 90% of the population were living in serfdom 20 years ago and are still fucking destitute while the other 10% live as comfortably as we do in the developed world, that makes perfect sense herp derp

[th@-pu$$y]

at point blank range. 6 others dead, including a 9 year old and a judge. mental


apparently the man who carried this out made this video - weird, in hindsight

Ouch...........I want my three min back. Did this crazy fuckin guy grow up under power lines? I mean, Ouch.
This is the definition of verbal diarrhea.
My brain hurts.

[noam]

wow, noam, you're showing your ignorance. sounding like a true politician, here.

when you outlaw guns, only the outlaws have guns.

just because America produces a lot of guns, and has a large gang population, you think that means that banning them will solve anything?

seriously. seriously, man... if they're banned in America, they'll just be made elsewhere and smuggled in, thats how making things illegal works over here. To think otherwise is ignorant at best, foolish at worst.

go up to the average rural texan and tell him you're about to take his gun, and then report back with how making them illegal is going for ya.

so in your little dream world where all guns are banned and everything is all gravy, some punk comes up to me with an illegal firearm and i have no means of protecting myself because laws were too busy telling me otherwise and im trying to be an upstanding citizen?

nope, i stay with my pistol, never used it outside of a range, and only keep it for defense and in case of anarchy. im a hardcore liberal but if you try and take my equalizer away from me it'll be a hard struggle.

tl;dr banning guns would simply be the most retarded thing to do, no matter how many statistics you try and blind yourself with.. the strategy you're looking for is tougher regulation in states that breeze past them. im not a criminal and i will never attack anyone, so telling me what to do and what not to do is an attack on a freedom, whether its in the constitution or not. if you ban guns you give the cops and criminals the upper hand.

oh wow...

banning guns would be retarded.

this is EXACTLY what i was talking about with this american mentality concerning firearms

i answered everyone of your points in the post you refer to and you still go on like that??

the point is: you like to have a gun. people like having guns. i would LOVE to own a gun. citizens owning guns is DUMB. citizens who own guns live in countries where FUCKLOADS more people die because of guns... and yet those same citizens by some incredible logical trick seem to believe that guns make them safer. fucking LOL.

fucking. LOL.

Gun law in the UK permits owning and keeping certain types of firearms, with the correct licensing and for use in the correct and approved ways i.e. on private land, for purposes of hunting, for leisure. the reason that we, in the UK dont have 12000 firearm related deaths every year is because we dont have everyday idiots, roaming the streets with them. okay, USA has a pop of 300,000,000, we have one of 70,000,000... so say we divide 12000 deaths by 5 or whatever to even out the numbers a little bit, our firearm related deathtoll should be around 2500... in 2009 there... 42.

you're going on about Outlaws like its still the wild west. its not. you're not Clint Eastwood. get over it.

[collige]

What I want to know is, what's Canada doing right that the US isn't?

I'm sure I've seen statistics before in these types of discussions about canadian gun crime vs US gun crime, and how there's just as many people with guns in canada but far less crime.

I could be mistaken though.

Canada doesn't have gangs and the drug trade.

[noam]

yep, the situation needs reform, not banning..

to put it in context... try banning guns in South Africa... herp that'll fix everything the homicide rate will plummet derp derp

a more sensible comparison to make would be countries of equal economic status as the USA, such as western european nations like Germany, France, UK

herp a derp all you want, it still just is a case of you wanting guns cos you want one and you dont want to be told you cant have one.

something it has also appeared has slipped people by in this thread, is that in countries where guns are banned (in a general way); you cant get hold of them in a supermarket. if you can buy a gun in a supermarket, how hard do you think it is to get hold of one illegally if you dont have a license??

i almost feel sorry for you dudes, cos it seems like so many of you, a lot of really smart clever people, have totally been worn down by the seeming cavalcade of violent crime spread across certain area's of your country. it seems like your outlook is so bleak you aren't prepared to entertain the genuine logical answer to the problem, or at least the first step in dealing with it.

i do get it... its the paranoia of knowing other people are as paranoid as you, its a nasty cycle.

but when we get cases of mass murders in schools where the kids have got weapons and bought bullets from supermarkets, using gang violence as a get out clause as to why you should still be able to buy a gun is weak, angsty, paranoid crap. guns should be banned over there for the simple fact that it'll just save more lives - deal with the gangs later, look after the citizens first. theres 100's of deaths that could have been prevented - and you wana write off those lives because you feel threatened by the illegal trade in arms?? 2 different problems. 2 very different solutions.

[esfandyar]

Violence did not start with the creation of a gun

[Ayatollah]

^^^ though it sure as hell made it easier and more lethal

the point is: you like to have a gun. people like having guns. i would LOVE to own a gun. citizens owning guns is DUMB. citizens who own guns live in countries where FUCKLOADS more people die because of guns... and yet those same citizens by some incredible logical trick seem to believe that guns make them safer.

spot on

[collige]

Pic from a drug bust. I highly doubt the banning of legally owned firearms would in any way affect the procurement of these guns.

[noam]

Pic from a drug bust. I highly doubt the banning of legally owned firearms would in any way affect the procurement of these guns.

[quote=''noam'']but when we get cases of mass murders in schools where the kids have got weapons and bought bullets from supermarkets, using gang violence as a get out clause as to why you should still be able to buy a gun is weak, angsty, paranoid crap. guns should be banned over there for the simple fact that it'll just save more lives - deal with the gangs later, look after the citizens first. theres 100's of deaths that could have been prevented - and you wana write off those lives because you feel threatened by the illegal trade in arms?? 2 different problems. 2 very different solutions.[/quote]

[knell]

yeh let's go on then noam, time to adopt all British public policies so we can have a camera on every corner yelling at us to stop weeing when we're just smoking a cig.

fuck off then noam, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you sound more retarded with each post, im sorry, but really... we've come this far, there are millions of guns out there and you think banning them will solve anything.

LOL.

take a trip to the states, or better yet, south africa, and tell me that stopping citizens from buying guns legally would make a difference.
or, (and here's a novel thought) READ A STATISTIC OR TWO and realize you're chatting absolute shit

[noam]

yeh let's go on then noam, time to adopt all British public policies so we can have a camera on every corner yelling at us to stop weeing when we're just smoking a cig.

fuck off then noam, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you sound more retarded with each post, im sorry, but really... we've come this far, there are millions of guns out there and you think banning them will solve anything.

LOL.

take a trip to the states, or better yet, south africa, and tell me that stopping citizens from buying guns legally would make a difference.
or, (and here's a novel thought) READ A STATISTIC OR TWO and realize you're chatting absolute shit

sigh

but when we get cases of mass murders in schools where the kids have got weapons and bought bullets from supermarkets, using gang violence as a get out clause as to why you should still be able to buy a gun is weak, angsty, paranoid crap. guns should be banned over there for the simple fact that it'll just save more lives - deal with the gangs later, look after the citizens first. theres 100's of deaths that could have been prevented - and you wana write off those lives because you feel threatened by the illegal trade in arms?? 2 different problems. 2 very different solutions.

[Sirius]

Only problem I have with guns is...

It takes away the mana of the kill!

Anybody can fight with guns... but how many would fight with a sword??

the world is gutless, and we will continue to be till the end!!

!!chea

[Phigure]

I've gotta say that I kind of agree with Noam on this one

Obviously it's not going to prevent some people from obtaining guns, but it will prevent a lot of others from doing so, reducing the number of incidents by a fair amount. I honestly don't think regular citizens should own guns. The average citizen simply isn't responsible enough to handle power like that. I'm sure there's a decent number of people who are responsible enough (which I'm sure knell is a part of) but I don't think that even though there's handful of responsible users that guns should be allowed for all

Ideally you would regulate them for more strictly, with far higher requirements to own one, so only the truly responsible and truly sane will be able to own one. But I have no idea how one would test for that...

[collige]

I've gotta say that I kind of agree with Noam on this one

Obviously it's not going to prevent some people from obtaining guns, but it will prevent a lot of others from doing so, reducing the number of incidents by a fair amount. I honestly don't think regular citizens should own guns. The average citizen simply isn't responsible enough to handle power like that. I'm sure there's a decent number of people who are responsible enough (which I'm sure knell is a part of) but I don't think that even though there's handful of responsible users that guns should be allowed for all

Ideally you would regulate them for more strictly, with far higher requirements to own one, so only the truly responsible and truly sane will be able to own one. But I have no idea how one would test for that...

The requirements are already in place, but retailers don't follow them.

DC banned handguns and assault rifles from 1975 to 2008, yet amazingly it still managed to earn the name of 'murder capital'. The lowest crime rate since 1963 was last year, after the handgun ban was declared unconstitutional.

[noam]

I've gotta say that I kind of agree with Noam on this one

Obviously it's not going to prevent some people from obtaining guns, but it will prevent a lot of others from doing so, reducing the number of incidents by a fair amount. I honestly don't think regular citizens should own guns. The average citizen simply isn't responsible enough to handle power like that. I'm sure there's a decent number of people who are responsible enough (which I'm sure knell is a part of) but I don't think that even though there's handful of responsible users that guns should be allowed for all

Ideally you would regulate them for more strictly, with far higher requirements to own one, so only the truly responsible and truly sane will be able to own one. But I have no idea how one would test for that...

The requirements are already in place, but retailers don't follow them.

DC banned handguns and assault rifles from 1975 to 2008, yet amazingly it still managed to earn the name of 'murder capital'. The lowest crime rate since 1963 was last year, after the handgun ban was declared unconstitutional.

DC isn't a foreign country...

[collige]

DC is part of the place where you propose banning guns. It didn't work.

[Ayatollah]

DC is part of the place where you propose banning guns. It didn't work.

yeah no shit, who would have thought that you needed a consistent nationwide policy?

Ideally you would regulate them for more strictly, with far higher requirements to own one, so only the truly responsible and truly sane will be able to own one. But I have no idea how one would test for that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

[deadly_habit]

here's a hint those school shootings had more to do with irresponsible and neglectful parents and staff at the schools who missed some obvious warning signs, not the fact that they got their hands on guns. i'm pretty sure even without guns they would have came up with an equally destructive plan (like say the failed homemade bombs at columbine)
it's a lot easier for people to blame guns rather than bad parents who let their kids grow up raised by the barrage of media be it video games, music, movies, tv which all glorifies violence and those are not to blame, but the ones who didn't put it into context, had access to firearms without proper storage or being taught proper morals and value for human life.
it's not just america who has this "blood lust" and shitty parents, hell just look at the sales of black ops and tell me that a good chunk of the demographic playing would be mature enough to handle a firearm in real life should the situation arise, and if the situation arised would the parents and adults involved in that kids life know or even be concerned?

so the UK doesn't have that many gun murders, but is #2 in assault victims in the world for starters among other things like #1 for kidnapping
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk- ... /cri-crime
every country is fucked up and not having guns doesn't do anything to curb it other than give the ones who have guns and the desire enough be it legal or government an easier power over life and death
harsher penalties on illegal guns won't do shit to curb the ones getting their hands on them, especially gangs. they have little to know regard for lives and doing time in prison often is glorified as a status bump (fuck just look at hip hop and "street cred")
so you continue to fill already overly populated prisons and keep a handful of people of the streets a bit longer while the next crop of recruits is already there and taking their place just as quickly, if not quicker...

in order for it to work there is a hell of a lot of underlying causes, laws with excessive penalties, and reform to the justice system and law enforcement that would have to be made before even considering even a statewide gun ban, let alone a nationwide one