who here is a good fighter? how many fights you been into?

[laurent__duval]

i get punched every now and again, generally when i'm in a club and normally for no good reason. havent properly punched anyone for a long time but i batter those punch bag machines at arcades!

[johnkimble]

Punched up a pal's nose into bloody goodness
It was an accident I swear. The guy pissed me off and I did one of those blind punches without looking at what to hit
Next thing I know the guy is straight up flowing blood
Oh yea and dropped a pal into the ground with a series of punches to the head

Thats about my ''fighting'' thing

[borrowed]

ishin ryu, krav maga and judo is what you need to learn for real life fighting

lol.

they all teach to do whatever it takes to win
what's so lol

Because while you're doing your katas and trying to throw me by my lapels, a traditional boxer has hit you five times with actual punches, and not karate chops and pressure points. Krav Maga is a joke. Judo has its uses, but falls short when used in unrestricted combat. Ishin Ryu is like any other traditional martial art, it has its uses, but mostly only against other people who practice that martial art. I love seeing traditional martial artists fight against a western boxer or a thai kickboxer and stumbling everywhere when they realize they don't train for a real, under pressure fight.

if boxing is so effective how comes randy couture fucked up james toney in 1 round putting him on his back and choking him with an arm triangle?
ever seen ufc 1? In his first fight Royce gracie beat a boxer without even throwing a single punch

Boxer isn't well rounded enough and doesn't take into account the reality of ground fighting, try knock someone out while your lying flat on you back and the dude on top is trying to break your limbs or choke you unconscious

i think thai boxing is sick for stand up but that also doesnt doesnt take into account ground fighting... hence we have MMA now where you have to train for all aspects and we have this man to thank for it

I had a long post typed, but instead i'll leave you with this.

1. Using the james toney/couture example, or the Art Jimmerson/Gracie example does not help your argument. Both Art Jimmerson and James Toney were cocky, uneducated, and ignorant of MMA. They were boxers who stepped out of the ropes and into the cage without preparing. Comparing this to an actual fight between a high level boxer and a high level judoka is not possible and doesn't have any bearing.
2. I know more about MMA than you think.
3.The gracies did not bring about MMA. MMA has been going on for thousands of years, it just hasn't been an element in pop culture and hasn't been on the average person's mind until the late 90s, though. While he did popularize it, Royce and others did not invent it and were certainly not the first to develop ground game to pick apart strikers.
4. At the end of the day, someone with a good knowledge of everything will do well when fighting against another trained fighter. However, if you can't throw a punch to save your ass, you can't end a fight quickly and you can't end without risking injury.

My .02

[borrowed]

well you're talking real life situations which is down to the individual not some arena or sport fight
boxers are the same as martial artists
i'm not gonna do some kata or shit when i get hit
i'm going to do max damage and reactive moves
any fighting technique is to learn it so it becomes a reactive instinct, not a routine

exactly... borrowed is the joke, not krav maga... and i combine Qigong pressure points into my routine, so its not a matter of fighting, but protection...

the fastest boxer in the world can come up and have his arm snapped in three places, thats fine... but all he has to do to not get hurt is not throw any punches, at all

Yeah? Then show me a high-level Krav Maga fighter that has won in K1, Pride, or any other large organization.

Look, I spent a long time training traditional TKD and have a great respect for it, but I know its place. Many of the techniques are for demonstration or are based on a loose understanding of physiology. Pressure points are known as lymph nodes, breaking someones arm with a strike midair doesn't work, and all those bullshit grabs and stuns are exactly that, bullshit.

[noam]

course he's trollin

anyway



trust me, this shit HURTS like a motherfucker

and the wrestling training you do is bare intense aswell, but really good fun nonetheless!

What silly training. Sure it hurts, but when the fuck are you going to throw that at someone?

so the Russian special forces have absolutely no idea how to put into practice martial arts training whilst serving in Chechnya, one of the worlds most dangerous warzones...

the vid is an example of how they go about teaching certain techniques, those punches are called heavy-hand punches, its the technique they use which minimises the time and effort it takes to throw a standard punch, whilst maximising power and pain. pretty effective. they also teach you specific pressure points to aim at to maximise nerve damage and set up following attacks.

'when the fuck are you gona throw that at someone' - when you'd normally throw a punch/attempt a throw/disarm when confronted with a weapon/facing multiple opponents etc

a few of the guys who used to teach me (who'd all been going to russia for a few years and had previously been olympic wrestlers) were security and doormen. they used it quite a lot. it was very effective against the average idiot who is just kicking off.

im not saying its better than a straight right. but its a very effective way of delivering powerful blows requiring minimal effort and maximising speed. this is a martial art that was designed specifically for military use, i.e. a lot of the moves take into account mobility when wearing full uniform so you have moves that a made far easier by wearing military style boots (dislocating the ankles by stepping with weight on the opponents foot/leg joint for example) and moves which can be done effectively when wearing heavy jackets and body armour - like this style of punching. its not a martial art that is meant for entertainment and it has little to no philosophy behind it outside of a warzone.

and if you want an example of what it can really do to opponents



although being fair, Fedor trained Systema (i think) and the original is called Combat Sambo and is far superior (could be the other way round). either way, watch how Fedor throws a punch, to the head its often overhand with an exaggerated twist of the wrist. you should be able to tell its not a standard boxing punch anyway. its straight up Systema/Combat Sambo techniques.

[borrowed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

You don't have to explain short strikes OR casting punches to me

[noam]

cool

[laurent__duval]

seems like everyone really knows what theyre talking about on here.
one thing i will say is, my best friend did preying mantis kung-fu for some time and told me that one of the basic principals of it was pretty much "if you can't hit them in the balls or throat or jab their eye's, then do jung fu". meaning that really its all about stopping the fight ASAP. made me think that really kung-fu is just a dirty way of fighting. some of the little techniques that he taught me are pretty nasty too, ways of breaking someone's nose (not ramming it into their brain) and wrists and extra effective ways of kicking someone in the balls!

[particle-jim]

Kung fu eh? I'm just gunna leave these here...





Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu ftw (traditional martial arts just don't understand ground fighting)

[cityzen]

my best friend did preying mantis kung-fu for some time and told me that one of the basic principals of it was pretty much "if you can't hit them in the balls or throat or jab their eye's, then do jung fu". meaning that really its all about stopping the fight ASAP. made me think that really kung-fu is just a dirty way of fighting.

Never forget the first rule of Kung Fu: Cheat.

Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
--Zhuge Liang

[noam]

^^great. use a gun.

anyway, on the subject of BJJ its great, but a lot of other disciplines can be said to do the same, greco-wrestling for example. for MMA both are just as good i reckon, at least the evidence suggests that to be true, in fact i'd hedge a bet and say that wrestlers are on the whole more successful in MMA than BJJ practitioners simply because of how good they are at straight up dominating opponents!

[particle-jim]

^^great. use a gun.

anyway, on the subject of BJJ its great, but a lot of other disciplines can be said to do the same, greco-wrestling for example. for MMA both are just as good i reckon, at least the evidence suggests that to be true, in fact i'd hedge a bet and say that wrestlers are on the whole more successful in MMA than BJJ practitioners simply because of how good they are at straight up dominating opponents!

pretty much all the wrestlers in mma train BJJ as well, wrestling is far to dependent on using strength and power to dominate, BJJ is all about leverage and technique, the whole point of BJJ is that the smaller, weaker guy can win through the application of correct technique, also wrestling doesn't have much in the way of submissions and also wrestlers have no idea what to do if they put on their back where as BJJ has multiple types of guard from which you can either submit or sweep to get a top posiion (all without using brute strength)

[cityzen]

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu ftw (traditional martial arts just don't understand ground fighting)

Jim, we've spoken about this before. Your comment just shows your ignorance on the subject of TMA.
Furthermore, as your clips show, BJJ leaves it's exponents open to any number of eye gouges, groin shots, small joint manipulations etc. It's fine as a sport or for use in a ring but falls short in a real situation. I'm not saying it would be totally useless by any stretch of the imagination, just don't believe the UFC hype.

[noam]

yea i know this all i was saying was that wrestling could be more effective on the ground, you can know all the tricks but a good wrestler's strength is their strength and ability to apply it properly. its a classic matchup, bjj vs. wrestling, jiu jitsu fighters learn to fight off of their backs, wrestlers always want to be on top, strength vs. cunning.

one more thing is that wrestlers are trained to not be taken down, its just a total contrast in styles which makes it interesting (thought often very boring!)

we could argue all day about which is better, however its down to the individual fighter at all times.

[clifford_-]

boxing ftw. been training for about 6 months now. love it.
fuck all that jew jitsu and wrestling shit. stand up and fight like a fucking man.

[noam]

trololololol

[clifford_-]

well its true though isnt it? if your gonna "cheat" as someone mentioned earlier/fight dirty or whatever, you may aswell just shoot/stab them.
real men stand up and fight, not roll around on the floor with each other. too much homo-eroticy in MMA...

[particle-jim]

Just go and watch Randy Couture Vs James Toney if you think boxing is better than ground fighting... Toney didn't land a single punch and got choked out in the first round

"stand up and fight like a fucking man" no thanks i'd rather fight smart

[clifford_-]

Just go and watch Randy Couture Vs James Toney if you think boxing is better than ground fighting... Toney didn't land a single punch and got choked out in the first round

"stand up and fight like a fucking man" no thanks i'd rather fight smart

then whats the point in fighting??

[particle-jim]

Just go and watch Randy Couture Vs James Toney if you think boxing is better than ground fighting... Toney didn't land a single punch and got choked out in the first round

"stand up and fight like a fucking man" no thanks i'd rather fight smart

then whats the point in fighting??

Bjj is for self defence, not starting fights, therefore the point is to not get hurt and to render your attacker unable to attack