HELP! how do you make kicks...

[SafetyFirst]

that hit hard and tight like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw25X8JfFHg.. I get close with layering 808's under a plethora of samples and compressing the shit out of everything, but it just doesn't have that deep condensed hit to it like if you recorded Bruce Lees punch or something, Thanks!

[Oquirrh]

This is probably going to contradict everything you'll be told after me but I don't use samples. Imo, layering kick samples and compressing them is going to do more for making them sound like absolute garbage then make them hit hard. Compressing "the shit" out of everything is going to help you lose your dynamics in the song which adds a lot to how hard we perceive a kick to be. I mainly use three instances of Waldorf Attack (drum synth but you can use any) and program myself three separate layers (like you would layer samples), one for the deep bass of the kick, another for the mid-range oomph and a final layer to provide the initial click or transient. You should look up how to do it and experiment for yourself but I find that using poor quality samples (e.g Vengeance CD, I know I'll get flamed for this) and just compressing the hell out of them without knowing what you're doing is pointless and will ruin any hope you have of getting a nice Thud! to your drum. Once in a blue moon if I find something I particularly like about a special kick sample, I'll layer it in amongst the rest of my synthesized layers but the difference here is I know what I'm doing with my synthesized layers, I can change the amp envelopes and frequency range of the separate layers relative to my sample to help it gel, something you will be hard-pressed to accomplish through taking a bunch of random samples and compressing them.

Just my .02

[deadly_habit]

sounds like neither of you understand what compression is
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... ssors.html

[Oquirrh]

sounds like neither of you understand what compression is
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... ssors.html

I know perfectly well what compression is, and I never do it to simply squash transients in a kick drum and try to get it sounding "omg teh best". Call me crazy, I've just found that my kicks sound better without compression then with. At the mixing stage I'll compress all of the drums a bit but never just compress the kick drum out of nowhere. Anyway, thanks for your condescending advice.

[deadly_habit]

you're welcome

[kHoff]

Having trouble a little with this too. How strong a compression ratio should be on kicks? Tried doing the method of EQing a low kick, mid, high etc not sure if I like it. Definitely side chain some type sub to it though.

[Oquirrh]

Imo it's always better just to start at the right source then try to EQ something later. That's why I like to synthesize kicks as much as possible but, to each his own. Don't get me wrong, EQ and Compression are good in a certain context when you know what you're doing but it's so easy to destroy your sound using these techniques that I find it's just better to avoid it and start with better source material.

[deadly_habit]

you don't need to compress kicks unless you're thickening the sound by squashing the transients. compression is best left for creating a gel of your kit on your overall drum buss.
sidechaining should only be used if you want that ducking effect, or you're just too lazy to do some proper equing and mixing
when you're layering you don't just slap sample over sample and eq or filter them to a certain range, you have to take the transients into account and the different parts of the sound into account
with say a kick you have the inital thud or even the beater hitting, the main body, and the tail end of the hit
when dealing with layers each individual layer could have different aspects say a short or tight body where one has a long body etc
so you have to mold your sound of that then deal with it as a whole

[Perfecture]

I am also having problems with Kicks, I was actaully going to come on this morning and make a thread for it, luckily enough someone has already done it haha.

My kick sound is the only thing production wise I am having problems with and the only thing holding back my sound atm . I am trying to get something similar to the kick from Depone's Track 'Dramazon.' Something heavy hitting and with alot of thud and click.

Key questions to you guys who have 'good' kicks:

- How many kick drum samples do YOU normally layer together?
- What plugins do YOU use on your kicks?
- Where do you get YOUR kick drum samples from?
- Where do YOU roll of your kicks (eq)?
- How long did it take YOU till you made a kick you were COMPLETELY happy with?

The reason I put YOU in caps is cause I want to hear exactly what you did, not just generalisations like I read everywhere else.

Any help is much appreciated guys, Thanks

[vertx]

I am also having problems with Kicks, I was actaully going to come on this morning and make a thread for it, luckily enough someone has already done it haha.

My kick sound is the only thing production wise I am having problems with and the only thing holding back my sound atm . I am trying to get something similar to the kick from Depone's Track 'Dramazon.' Something heavy hitting and with alot of thud and click.

Key questions to you guys who have 'good' kicks:

- How many kick drum samples do YOU normally layer together?
- What plugins do YOU use on your kicks?
- Where do you get YOUR kick drum samples from?
- Where do YOU roll of your kicks (eq)?
- How long did it take YOU till you made a kick you were COMPLETELY happy with?

The reason I put YOU in caps is cause I want to hear exactly what you did, not just generalisations like I read everywhere else.

Any help is much appreciated guys, Thanks

I don't know how good my kicks are but this is what i get up to...

- I usually don't layer my kicks, i try to find a sample i am happy with from the beginning
- only transient shaping to tighten them up and some light parallel comp on the drum bus
- depending on the kick i roll off around 50hz to 70hz 12db (if it needs it) and adjust q to taste
- only after a year of production am i just starting to get the hang of choosing good samples i am happy with but there is still much to learn

[nowaysj]

I recommend checking your mix at different volumes. You might have a mix where the core drums sound weak, but then you turn it up and all of a sudden the drums smack hard as fuck. Something to be mindful of.

I've been collecting kick samples for over a decade. 95 out of a hundred, I don't layer kicks. I just find a good one, or a good enough one. I may layer snares and claps and what not, and crisscross 7 different hat lines. But I keep my kicks pretty clean. I try not to eq at all. I'm not at the level where I can compress for tone, generally. Sometimes I go there, but that is a little over my head. I can tend to end up chasing my tail, and my time would just be better spent auditioning kicks.

I do synth kicks. But I kind of tend to do that in periods. Like for a couple of months, I go on a kick synthing kick. Just seems right. But then I'll come back to samples.

Whatever, disregard all this, just remember to check your mix at different volumes. Sometimes wimpy sounding drums will knock your teeth out at a loud volume.

[Perfecture]

I do A and B comparisons properly, as in having the track I am comparing to at the same volume as mine. And the kick still sounds better and hits harder in the track i am comparing to. And that even goes for when i am comparing to a track that hasn't been mastered as well.

I just can't for the life of me figure out how to get a really beefy in your face kick.
I have tried layering kicks, compression, Limiting, EQ etc and still no luck. The kick sound I currenltly have I REALLY REALLY like the sound of, but I just can't get it to hit strong and with a thud. The only time it sounds thuddy and in your face is when I turn up the db to over 9000.

I just wish there was a good tutorial vid showing everything in depth from picking a sample to all the processing etc. Most producer masterclass vids never really cover drum processing in depth or show you from start to finish on how to process drums.

[Sharmaji]

I just can't for the life of me figure out how to get a really beefy in your face kick.

made it the loudest element in the mix. try using a transient designer to bring up the attack as well, and then limit it a bit to reign it in.

[Perfecture]

I just can't for the life of me figure out how to get a really beefy in your face kick.

made it the loudest element in the mix. try using a transient designer to bring up the attack as well, and then limit it a bit to reign it in.

Cheers man, thanks for your help and nowaysj.

Is there a plugin in Logic that can act as a transient designer or if not what plugin would you recommend? (needs to be Mac compatible)

I find the adaptive limiter in Logic distorts things sometimes or makes the sound dull. Anyone else have this problem?

I just don't get how some guys have really loud kicks and loud bass and everything else loud, and it all manages to sit together nicely.

[MUT3]

house kicks
parallel compression
limiter
eq
shaack audio transient designer

[Perfecture]

house kicks
parallel compression
limiter
eq
shaack audio transient designer

Is that the Transient Shaper that Reso uses? If so, How does it differ from a Limiter btw? is it in affect a limiter?

[Sharmaji]

[
Is there a plugin in Logic that can act as a transient designer or if not what plugin would you recommend? (needs to be Mac compatible)



I just don't get how some guys have really loud kicks and loud bass and everything else loud, and it all manages to sit together nicely.

"Enveloper" in logic.

The adaptive limiter has too much coloration for me, and it's generally not a coloration i like. I tend to just use the stock limiter-- nice and straightforward, and the soft-knee feature has a pleasant, smooth vibe about it. To more obviously clip a signal, i like that free cyanide plug-in.

read the mixing & mastering thread to sort out volume. it comes down to gain structure and dynamic control-- be it via compression/limiting, distortion, clipping, etc. Figure out which sounds need transients (drums), which don't (pads), etc, and then get them to sit at the proper volume levels.

For a really punchy mix, you need your elements to be efficient-- no excess dynamics where they don't need to be, and frequency structure that makes sense-- no extra 80hz in your snare, or useless 17khz in something that's bitcrushed, etc. Use compression, or parallel compression, at the bus level to get elements to gel together and decrease overall dynamics.

It's definitely not the only way to mix in EDM (ie, see burial in 2006), but it's one of 'em.

for kicks, specifically, I sometimes find that too much compression w/ makeup gain can help turn a full-but-flabby sound into a really punchy drum. hit it with medium-fast attack, play around w/ the release (you want something that works rhythmically), high ratio, low threshold, and i tend to like it emulation the FET or VCA circuits in logic. Let the compressor have "soft" output distortion, turn the makeup gain to 0, and see what it does-- you'll have to play around with it.

Though ultimately, if you're starting a song, it's easier to get the right sample than to sculpt a different sample that drastically. come mix time though-- it can help.

(tho i'd rather just use transient designer on a better-suited sample )

[Perfecture]

[
Is there a plugin in Logic that can act as a transient designer or if not what plugin would you recommend? (needs to be Mac compatible)



I just don't get how some guys have really loud kicks and loud bass and everything else loud, and it all manages to sit together nicely.

"Enveloper" in logic.

The adaptive limiter has too much coloration for me, and it's generally not a coloration i like. I tend to just use the stock limiter-- nice and straightforward, and the soft-knee feature has a pleasant, smooth vibe about it. To more obviously clip a signal, i like that free cyanide plug-in.

read the mixing & mastering thread to sort out volume. it comes down to gain structure and dynamic control-- be it via compression/limiting, distortion, clipping, etc. Figure out which sounds need transients (drums), which don't (pads), etc, and then get them to sit at the proper volume levels.

For a really punchy mix, you need your elements to be efficient-- no excess dynamics where they don't need to be, and frequency structure that makes sense-- no extra 80hz in your snare, or useless 17khz in something that's bitcrushed, etc. Use compression, or parallel compression, at the bus level to get elements to gel together and decrease overall dynamics.

It's definitely not the only way to mix in EDM (ie, see burial in 2006), but it's one of 'em.

for kicks, specifically, I sometimes find that too much compression w/ makeup gain can help turn a full-but-flabby sound into a really punchy drum. hit it with medium-fast attack, play around w/ the release (you want something that works rhythmically), high ratio, low threshold, and i tend to like it emulation the FET or VCA circuits in logic. Let the compressor have "soft" output distortion, turn the makeup gain to 0, and see what it does-- you'll have to play around with it.

Though ultimately, if you're starting a song, it's easier to get the right sample than to sculpt a different sample that drastically. come mix time though-- it can help.

(tho i'd rather just use transient designer on a better-suited sample )

Cheers for the info man, Yeah I already have gain structuring down properly, I roll off and cut out frequencies that samples/sounds/instruments etc do not need and I have a good idea of how to use compression and limiting. But I will def try that Enveloper in Logic and that Transient Shaper thing that Reso uses.

It's just really annoying to have an awesome sounding kick but just not being able to push up the power and volume without degrading the sound. Atm I have 2 kicks layered, the main kick and a highpassed one that adds a slight click and top end to the sound.

Btw sorry If It seems like I have hi-jacked this thread. I just thought questions from myself and others might cover what others would like answered and it could open up more tips and techniques that others might not of thought about......I wonder if I said 'others' enough

[kHoff]

What does reso mean when he says his kicks peak at -10db?
And so the general consensus is to have one general kick, then EQ out two more layers, then enveloper and limiter? Then compress all the drums to a bus, not just the kick separately?
I was compressing them a tiny bit on the individual kick and doing parallell to snare and hats too.

[Perfecture]

What does reso mean when he says his kicks peak at -10db?
And so the general consensus is to have one general kick, then EQ out two more layers, then enveloper and limiter? Then compress all the drums to a bus, not just the kick separately?
I was compressing them a tiny bit on the individual kick and doing parallell to snare and hats too.

By peaking at -10 he means his kick is at -10 volume on the fader basically, simple as man. By Peaking it means the loudest point of the kick.

Yeah I compress on the indivdual tracks, then On the bus my kicks are sent to and then I send the kicks and snare to a separate bus which is just for parallel compression. But thats just one of way of doing it, there are probably other ways, I just find that way easiest for me.