What If Everything Worked the Same as American Healthcare?

[Sirius]

no credit cards & no hire purchase... that's all we need to change in our societies to become economically sustainable! Then it comes to a change in banking policies... a bank should only be able to loan money that it has 100%, & then not charge interest.

You want bling, save up for it! You want a loan to acquire an investment... apply for it.

Taxes are important, but in the case of the US... taxes paying for war is not!
That country has no right to be in other countries with arms.

If the US never invaded Iraq or Afghanistan & had of learnt its lessons from 911, they could still be a great nation that people admire.

They could also have spent that money & given free healthcare to all,
Increased the amount of schools & teachers,
AND helped Mexico in peace keeping missions, quelling the insane drug violence!

Yet the US still prohibits drugs, which is the biggest problem they face in their own country.
Legalise all drugs & then put the money saved from the enforcement of prohibition back into education & hospitalisation!

The end factor is EDUCATION! But a government fears an educated country!
education = knowledge, knowledge = wisdom, wisdom = power,
power = freedom, freedom = the antithesis of control!

!!chea

[borrowed]

it's more like "you'll have to wait 3 months.... but if you didn't spend money on stupid shit like rims for your car, cable television, internet porn, a healthy coke habit, $100 in video games monthly, eating out 4 nights a week, and otherworthless shit you don't need odds are you would have enough money to pay for your car to get fixed.

most americans don't have a healthcare problem. They have a budgeting problem.

Yeah? You know this how?

Because I live in the USA and know how irresponsible the average american is

What an unbiased, scientific way of looking at things.

Are you denying americans are financially irresponsible? Please explain how americans are financially responsible

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+debt+per+american

you can talk shit and say I'm wrong but please explain your counterpoint.

First off any credit card debt that can't be paid off withing 90 days is irresponsible for any number of reasons, but having credit card debt while the average american has the products and services I listed earlier is negligent to no end. We pay as much in interest as we do in principal as a nation because we don't understand fundamental economics.

since your google is apparently broken, click the link above and try to superficially understand how utterly fucking stupid our country is with money

My point is that the operation a friend of mine received in Germany cost a quarter of what the same operation cost here, so he bought himself a plane ticket and flew to Germany to get it done and still saved over half.

Health care is too expensive. Yes people tend to be irresponsible, but there's no reason the same level of care should be that expensive.

[nowaysj]

Yet the US still prohibits drugs, which is the biggest problem they face in their own country.
Legalise all drugs & then put the money saved from the enforcement of prohibition back into education & hospitalisation!

California was very close to legalizing mj in the last election. If the law was better, it might have passed. But the prez of mexico was up in this bitch saying do not do it, it will cause no end of harm to mexico. Reality.

[the acid never lies]

no, i don't think he should have the same income as bill gates.
do i think he should get access to the same healthcare without significantly and detrimentally altering his quality of life? yes.

THANK YOU!! you were bang on!

does a person who makes millions of dollars deserve to get better hospital treatment than a homeless person?? Is their life worth more because of their accumulation of wealth?? NO!!!!!

All we want as world citizens is equal treatment, no matter what your past is,
nobody in this world should be allowed more rights because of who they are!

ONE LOVE! KOTAHI AROHA!

!!chea

I'm all for that but in order for that to happen we have to give up certain things. We can't continue to be wasteful glutinous pigs. We need to be financially responsible, help things out by not doing things that are counterproductive.

The problem is you and I may be willing to sacrifice for the betterment of humanity, but the vast majority of people are not. We need to fundamentally change how we act if we want to enable ourselves to provide these services.

We can't blow money as a society on stupid shit. We can't spend ridiculous amounts on oil. We can't waste money on fruitless wars. We can't let our politicians spend money on special interest groups. We can't blow money on wants before we take care of our needs. Health care needs to take priority over everything else on both a national and personal level. Healthcare doesn't just fall out of the sky. We have to prioritize it and demand our countries do the same. We can't just say it should be done without a plan to make it happen.

We can identify the problem, if we don't develop a fiscal solution it means nothing.

How does one argue with such entrenched right wing views?

Of course we have the resources, with a bit of democratic planning in the economy perhaps we wouldn't see so much (capitalist) waste! It is the profit system with its hundreds of different types of toothbrush and other anomalies (commonalities) that means that so many resources go towards doing utterly worthless things while millions of people with the potential to be extremely productive are unemployed simply because 'the market' doesn't demand it. It's not like there's a lack of things for us to do!

[garethom]

Let's all just kill ourselves and see which animal is the first one into space.

[the acid never lies]

You are my perfect foil <3

[test_recordings]

It seems people are convinced to spend their money on bullshit instead of what they really need. Doesn't help that everything's distributed so unequally and some people still can't afford the basics, that definitely has an effect on their health!

[pkay]

How does one argue with such entrenched right wing views?

Of course we have the resources, with a bit of democratic planning in the economy perhaps we wouldn't see so much (capitalist) waste! It is the profit system with its hundreds of different types of toothbrush and other anomalies (commonalities) that means that so many resources go towards doing utterly worthless things while millions of people with the potential to be extremely productive are unemployed simply because 'the market' doesn't demand it. It's not like there's a lack of things for us to do!

I'm a card carrying democrat. However, I'm also a realist. American's talk a big game and expect everyone to sacrifice..... except them.

Also, debating capitalism in america is pointless. Our entire economic worth is based on innovation and making a better toothbrush than the next man.

We are a capitalist society and will remain one until our people cease to exist. It's best not to waste time whining about caplitalism and instead try and find a solution within the confines of the system we live in .

In my opinion that starts with regulating the drug companies and it needs to be by someone that is not connecnted with the FDA and other corrupt entities.

[the acid never lies]

Yeah because universal healthcare is just hard-line communist isn't it

[pkay]

Yeah because universal healthcare is just hard-line communist isn't it

not really, it's just not entirely doable within the financial system that makes us the international juggernaut that we are today.

explaining to americans that they'll have free universal helathcare but our country won't be as fat in the bank account is a hard sale.

You're seemingly having trouble distinguishing what is my personal opinion and what is my opinion of how the american people will react.

I personally am more than willing to sacrifice my fair share for the betterment of humanity. I am very fortunate to have a skill set that pays me well and make more than I honestly need. However, the realist in me sees my coworkers who live very superficial lives that want lots of personal wealth and lots of toys and that realist in me knows they are not willing to sacrifice. So asking our fellow man to give up their slice of the pie is a pointless objective.

Instead I think it is more realistic to redesign the system we are currently in to adjust to american lifestyle than to ask the american to adjust to it.

IE regulating industry is a lot easier than fixing greedy american mentality

[the acid never lies]

regulating industry is a lot easier than fixing greedy american mentality

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

[pkay]

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

agreed and the realist in me says that the reason the democratic party is such a failure right now is because we have unrealistic utopian ideas.

we talk a big game about shit that we know isn't feesable with the american people. If you want actual change you have to do something that will actually work, not something that looks good on paper

[test_recordings]

Yeah because universal healthcare is just hard-line communist isn't it

not really, it's just not entirely doable within the financial system that makes us the international juggernaut that we are today.

explaining to americans that they'll have free universal helathcare but our country won't be as fat in the bank account is a hard sale.

You're seemingly having trouble distinguishing what is my personal opinion and what is my opinion of how the american people will react.

I personally am more than willing to sacrifice my fair share for the betterment of humanity. I am very fortunate to have a skill set that pays me well and make more than I honestly need. However, the realist in me sees my coworkers who live very superficial lives that want lots of personal wealth and lots of toys and that realist in me knows they are not willing to sacrifice. So asking our fellow man to give up their slice of the pie is a pointless objective.

Instead I think it is more realistic to redesign the system we are currently in to adjust to american lifestyle than to ask the american to adjust to it.

IE regulating industry is a lot easier than fixing greedy american mentality

you do realise that the same greed as inculcated by the companies that you are proposing to regulate? Marketing is basically legalised mass-hypnotism

[borrowed]

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

agreed and the realist in me says that the reason the democratic party is such a failure right now is because we have unrealistic utopian ideas.

we talk a big game about shit that we know isn't feesable with the american people. If you want actual change you have to do something that will actually work, not something that looks good on paper

God damn, nothing pisses me off more than people online with no clue about politics try to sound like they know what they're talking about.

[Phigure]

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

agreed and the realist in me says that the reason the democratic party is such a failure right now is because we have unrealistic utopian ideas.

we talk a big game about shit that we know isn't feesable with the american people. If you want actual change you have to do something that will actually work, not something that looks good on paper

errrr... it does work. Look at Norway. Shining example of how it's done right....

[pkay]

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

agreed and the realist in me says that the reason the democratic party is such a failure right now is because we have unrealistic utopian ideas.

we talk a big game about shit that we know isn't feesable with the american people. If you want actual change you have to do something that will actually work, not something that looks good on paper

God damn, nothing pisses me off more than people online with no clue about politics try to sound like they know what they're talking about.

you mean like telling someone they're wrong and not explaining why? Nice one dickhead

[pkay]

Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion. It's what separates materialists from idealists. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people call themselves 'realists' - no biggie though right?

agreed and the realist in me says that the reason the democratic party is such a failure right now is because we have unrealistic utopian ideas.

we talk a big game about shit that we know isn't feesable with the american people. If you want actual change you have to do something that will actually work, not something that looks good on paper

errrr... it does work. Look at Norway. Shining example of how it's done right....

We have cities bigger than norway. We have multiple people who make more than the entire country of Norway. A little more complex than just 'do like norway'

[the acid never lies]

@ pkay

my coworkers who live very superficial lives that want lots of personal wealth and lots of toys and that realist in me knows they are not willing to sacrifice. So asking our fellow man to give up their slice of the pie is a pointless objective.

I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion.

The problem with liberals (social liberals, that is) is that they lack the conviction to see their ideas through. They lack an analysis of how to make that change and that is why they are utopian. The flip-side is somebody like you, who strikes me as a liberal at heart but who is disillusioned by liberalism's ability to make change.

That change won't happen by convincing the people at the top, the 'haves' ; the people that need convincing are the ones that are losing out, who make up the bulk of not just America but the globe's population. Or rather, people need to be empowered to make a change. Can you imagine if in the 19th Century people decided to wait around and hope that their betters would grant them the right to vote?

[pkay]

@ pkay

my coworkers who live very superficial lives that want lots of personal wealth and lots of toys and that realist in me knows they are not willing to sacrifice. So asking our fellow man to give up their slice of the pie is a pointless objective.

I think you'll find it's liberals that tend to go for this utopian idea of convincing people to live differently through moral persuasion.

The problem with liberals (social liberals, that is) is that they lack the conviction to see their ideas through. They lack an analysis of how to make that change and that is why they are utopian. The flip-side is somebody like you, who strikes me as a liberal at heart but who is disillusioned by liberalism's ability to make change.

That change won't happen by convincing the people at the top, the 'haves' ; the people that need convincing are the ones that are losing out, who make up the bulk of not just America but the globe's population. Or rather, people need to be empowered to make a change. Can you imagine if in the 19th Century people decided to wait around and hope that their betters would grant them the right to vote?

I'm more disillusioned by the laziness of the western world conservatives and liberals alike. Nothing will change as long as are 'have nots' are still far more well off than the rest of the world. Our lowest 1% is middle to upper class in most third world countries and as long as that is the situation the push for change will not exist. I fear it will take total economic collapse of the western world for westerners to adjust their priorities.

[wubstep]

That change won't happen by convincing the people at the top, the 'haves' ; the people that need convincing are the ones that are losing out, who make up the bulk of not just America but the globe's population. Or rather, people need to be empowered to make a change. Can you imagine if in the 19th Century people decided to wait around and hope that their betters would grant them the right to vote?