Survey of Dubstep producers - Results now available

[dublinstep]

Hello,

There is a survey here which I've created - it would be great if you could take the 5 - 10 minutes or so to complete it. Here's the full URL if you want to send it on to other people: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=658513698174

I'm doing research at the moment into "Creative Commons" licensing, which is an alternative form of content licensing to traditional Copyright. If you want to find out more you can check creativecommons.org.

This particular survey is finding out attitudes among "cultural content producers", i.e. people like yourselves, who publish their material on the internet.

The reason I've chosen the dubs forum is because producers here usually publish their tracks for free, and rarely if ever specify what licensing goes along with the track. Similarly dubstep doesnt have the same level of commercial/financial pressures that other music scenes have (yet!), so its fresh territory to explore people's opinions on certain situations.

The survey is completely anonymous & confidential - I'm not looking for your name, address, phone number or email.

I really appreciate your time completing it. The results will be posted up here in the forum in mid-May or thereabouts.

[dublinstep]

Oh yeah I also meant to say - if you're any problems or additional queries, dont hesitate to PM me or post a question up here, I'll be more than happy to answer it for you.

[auralassassin]

Creative Commons = <3

[shonky]

Quite an interesting survey - has to be said that the amount of money in dubstep is pretty negligible for the majority of dj's and producers (I've heard of certain producers selling tunes for £150 a track which isn't a great deal of money for several weeks work), but I must admit that people do tend to be far more creative when they haven't got that pound sign floating in front of them.

It is interesting to me though to consider how widespread uncleared sampling is, and how little point there is in the record companies pursuing it (most lawyers fees would easily outweigh any money to be made in suing a small label) yet when a struggling artist is ripped off by a major label there's a major outcry - it's technically theft on both sides yet it's rarely seen that way.

[mudfoot)))]

It is interesting to me though to consider how widespread uncleared sampling is, and how little point there is in the record companies pursuing it (most lawyers fees would easily outweigh any money to be made in suing a small label) yet when a struggling artist is ripped off by a major label there's a major outcry - it's technically theft on both sides yet it's rarely seen that way.

I think the issue is, when a dubstep producer samples a major label artist, the amount of money they make is tiny. When a major label rips off a struggling artist (I'm thinking of the thing where Timbaland ripped off some Finnish electronica artist) they make HUGE bank, possibly more than that artist will see their entire career. So if theft is measured in terms of monetary value, they're not equal. But it's one thing to look at the forum and another thing to talk about pressing vinyl. You can always pull something down from the internet on request, but you can't recall records from stores. So if you notice, Sensi Dub is on Boomkat right now... white label, no artist or label ID. I think if you're using easily recognizable samples, and you're the one who would be held liable, you don't take any chances.

[pdomino]

Mentions this at the end.

http://creativecommons.org/

[dublinstep]

Wow, thanks very much for all the responses to the survey so far, please keep them coming in...

[evol g]

Nice survey. Awesome to see someone with initiative tackling some very mundane yet extremely necessary issues. Can't wait to see what the outcome of this will be.

Big up Dublinstep!

[shonky]

It is interesting to me though to consider how widespread uncleared sampling is, and how little point there is in the record companies pursuing it (most lawyers fees would easily outweigh any money to be made in suing a small label) yet when a struggling artist is ripped off by a major label there's a major outcry - it's technically theft on both sides yet it's rarely seen that way.

I think the issue is, when a dubstep producer samples a major label artist, the amount of money they make is tiny. When a major label rips off a struggling artist (I'm thinking of the thing where Timbaland ripped off some Finnish electronica artist) they make HUGE bank, possibly more than that artist will see their entire career. So if theft is measured in terms of monetary value, they're not equal. But it's one thing to look at the forum and another thing to talk about pressing vinyl. You can always pull something down from the internet on request, but you can't recall records from stores. So if you notice, Sensi Dub is on Boomkat right now... white label, no artist or label ID. I think if you're using easily recognizable samples, and you're the one who would be held liable, you don't take any chances.

Should be pointed out that a large amount of reggae artists sampled in dubstep tunes may well be as broke as the UK dubstep artists. Not a big UB40 fan, but from what I can remember they made sure that the artist and not just the copyright holder (which might be different) got a cut of the tune they covered, even if legally they didn't have to.

The Timbaland thing sticks out as he was a multi-millionaire who just helped himself to someone else's tune, but considering the amount of bootlegs of Timbaland involved tunes of which he got precisely zilch it does seem a bit hypocritical to say that one's exploitative and the other's fair use.

[oyaarss]

(I'm thinking of the thing where Timbaland ripped off some Finnish electronica artist)

haven't heard of this one. can anyone enlighten me about this case?

[shonky]

http://theutubeblog.com/2007/01/23/copy ... tado-song/

[dublinstep]

Nice survey. Awesome to see someone with initiative tackling some very mundane yet extremely necessary issues. Can't wait to see what the outcome of this will be. Big up Dublinstep!

Thanks for the encouragement. Certainly some interesting answers so far - admittedly not what I expected or hypothesised originally!! But yep, I'll be leaving it open for a while (roughly until May 15th), and will post the results up publicly, with some analysis.

Again, thanks again to everyone who's filled it in so far. Please keep them coming in. Its a very short survey.

[oyaarss]

just posted this link in Latvian drumandbass forum, so there will be a number of Latvian producer responses!

[mamosa]

done

[dublinstep]

Hey everyone,

I think the sticky is due to expire on this tomorrow, so it will probably 'sink in the mud' in the next few days. I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who filled it in - at the moment I've recieved 69 fully complete surveys (unfortunately I cant count the uncompleted ones), but it will be left open for a while, so I'll post the results up in mid May after its closed.

Thanks again for your time (and cheers to the mods for making it a sticky, I owe you all a pint)

[nickb]

Done and dusted. Quite interesting questions.

[drgk]

Quite an interesting survey - has to be said that the amount of money in dubstep is pretty negligible for the majority of dj's and producers (I've heard of certain producers selling tunes for £150 a track which isn't a great deal of money for several weeks work), but I must admit that people do tend to be far more creative when they haven't got that pound sign floating in front of them.

It is interesting to me though to consider how widespread uncleared sampling is, and how little point there is in the record companies pursuing it (most lawyers fees would easily outweigh any money to be made in suing a small label) yet when a struggling artist is ripped off by a major label there's a major outcry - it's technically theft on both sides yet it's rarely seen that way.

why would it take weeks to finish a track? unless you don't know the software very well or you're a shitty musician and it takes you 100 takes to get something played right. trust me it is worth the investment in some practice so you don't have to fumble through and quantize everything. i find that when i'm feeling inspired i can crank out a track in about 2-3 hours, MAYBE an hour or two later on to polish it up. $200-300 dollars for 5-6 hours of work sounds pretty fucking good to me.

[drgk]

neat survey.

i plan to release source files for much of our music as open source at some point. my brother and his friend are working on a site so we can have an online database of basslines, breaks, etc.

;p

[shonky]

Quite an interesting survey - has to be said that the amount of money in dubstep is pretty negligible for the majority of dj's and producers (I've heard of certain producers selling tunes for £150 a track which isn't a great deal of money for several weeks work), but I must admit that people do tend to be far more creative when they haven't got that pound sign floating in front of them.

It is interesting to me though to consider how widespread uncleared sampling is, and how little point there is in the record companies pursuing it (most lawyers fees would easily outweigh any money to be made in suing a small label) yet when a struggling artist is ripped off by a major label there's a major outcry - it's technically theft on both sides yet it's rarely seen that way.

why would it take weeks to finish a track? unless you don't know the software very well or you're a shitty musician and it takes you 100 takes to get something played right. trust me it is worth the investment in some practice so you don't have to fumble through and quantize everything. i find that when i'm feeling inspired i can crank out a track in about 2-3 hours, MAYBE an hour or two later on to polish it up. $200-300 dollars for 5-6 hours of work sounds pretty fucking good to me.

I don't know anyone that knocks out tunes that quickly. I didn't mean weeks as in non-stop, just over that time period. Not everyone has the luxury of being a full time musician. Even Loefah said that he's spent an entire day getting a snare sound.

There are pro's that can't finish tracks in 3 days, let alone hours. If you think you're going to produce something that sounds well mixed, polished and broadcast quality in 5-6 hours (from sound design to mastering), you're either very talented, making very simple music, missing some time out of the equation, or not making tunes as polished as you'd like to think.

[drgk]

I don't know anyone that knocks out tunes that quickly. I didn't mean weeks as in non-stop, just over that time period. Not everyone has the luxury of being a full time musician. Even Loefah said that he's spent an entire day getting a snare sound.

There are pro's that can't finish tracks in 3 days, let alone hours. If you think you're going to produce something that sounds well mixed, polished and broadcast quality in 5-6 hours (from sound design to mastering), you're either very talented, making very simple music, missing some time out of the equation, or not making tunes as polished as you'd like to think.

well that's the thing about dubstep now isn't it. it is pretty simple music in general. i've heard the words minimalist and ambient tossed around a lot in description of it.

honestly it would probably take me a day or two of full time work (5-6 hours) to produce something PERFECTLY polished and perfect. But not every idea needs to be brought to that level, or benefits from it. I have ruined dozens and dozens of tracks by not leaving them alone when they were good enough, (and not saving earlier versions before I fucked them up). But saying it would take WEEKS is very excessive for anyone who knows what they are doing.

yes I am a full time musician and have the time to work on it every day, that helps. I know of a great many "producers" with no musical training or experience, a pirated copy of fruity loops and a one octave keyboard who very well may take, as I say, 100 takes to get a bassline played right. even quantize can't work miracles. this could explain why it would take someone weeks to produce a track. on the other hand if you know your shit it only takes seconds to get a drum machine or synth to make the SPECIFIC sound you're looking for.

As far as spending an entire day on one snare sound, someone is either exaggerating or wasting their time. NO audience member will EVER be able to tell the goddamn difference (except MAYBE other pros). I'm inclined to think of drum and bass, a genre that has alienated a large portion of the audience by making the focus of the music based on production values that the average non-musician can't understand (ex. he has 117 drum loops layered on this track, THAT IS SO AWESOME!). To the layman it sounds like a bunch of noise.

This is something that inspired me the moment I heard dubstep. slow and steady, easy to hear the intricacies of, easy to relate to for people who DON'T come to it from the dnb world.

Some of the best ideas in music are made fast and put down right away. In ten years of making music I've learned that those who spend that much time on a single track usually never let it see the light of day. I personally would rather take a track as far as I can before the magic fades, get it up on the website and move on to something else.

just to get an idea i gave skream's "midnight request line" a listen. counting the "hello..." sample I count about 9-10 elements (don't nitpick me on the count it might be 15 who the fuck cares). yes a polished dnb track might have that many 15 breakbeats alone.

i've made the comparison between classical painting and impressionism. dubstep tracks are quick, sometimes sketchy, and INNOVATIVE. keep pushin' it forwards!