1:40 of my first WIP... tips?

[sam_vogel]

Soundcloud

This is the first 1:40 of my first song, entitled "This is Sparta." Yes, the famous quote from the movie 300 is indeed in the song. I have been working tirelessly to arrange the piece in a way I like, build more synths/samples/loops/etc in Reason, write new peices, etc. so the mixing and mastering sound AWFUL. Keep this in mind while listening and try to get an idea for what the song will sound like when I do mix/master it properly.

If you have any comments, suggestions, questions, etc. please feel free to say something. I am posting this WIP to get as much criticism/feedback as I can to change it and make it as good as possible. Thanks.

P.S.: I forgot to cut the length of the exported loop, so there's around a minute of silence... sorry about that.

[continuumdnb]

There's a WIP thread in the production forum that this would probably be better suited to. Using more than one sample/pitch/volume for your hats will help them sound less machine-gun like, although that's an effect that some people like. Although mastering is not usually done till a track is finished, you should try to mixdown as well as you can as you go, it will save you a massive headache later, help people give you advice (if you're going to be postings WIPs) and let you make sure the elements of your track sound ok together. You don't want to spend ages tweaking a synth that's really quiet then realise when you turn it up it's completely drowning out som other element, similarly EVERYTHING sounds better loud, so you may think you've got a really powerful sound going and then fin out that when you turn it down so your track has some headroom it's actually pretty weak. Spending a little time as you write to (just roughly) make sure everything is at ok levels ends up being way less work that thinking "i'll mixdown at the end".

[sam_vogel]

There's a WIP thread in the production forum that this would probably be better suited to. Using more than one sample/pitch/volume for your hats will help them sound less machine-gun like, although that's an effect that some people like. Although mastering is not usually done till a track is finished, you should try to mixdown as well as you can as you go, it will save you a massive headache later, help people give you advice (if you're going to be postings WIPs) and let you make sure the elements of your track sound ok together. You don't want to spend ages tweaking a synth that's really quiet then realise when you turn it up it's completely drowning out som other element, similarly EVERYTHING sounds better loud, so you may think you've got a really powerful sound going and then fin out that when you turn it down so your track has some headroom it's actually pretty weak. Spending a little time as you write to (just roughly) make sure everything is at ok levels ends up being way less work that thinking "i'll mixdown at the end".

Thanks for the tips... I think mixing down is really one of my problems. Because the Master Level of my track is lower than I expected, I boosted the levels of all of my tracks, which probably makes them all fighting for the same frequencies and mudding eachother up. Being my first production I'm bound to make mistakes, and this is definitely one that I will work on. Thank you again. I'll repost soon with some adjustments.

[paravrais]

Not too bad for a first attempt to be honest, some nice ideas etc although clearly there is a LOT that needs to be worked on. The mixdown is the most striking thing here, it really does need a lot of work. I would set all your volume faders down to zero again and then re-arrange the levels from scratch but start with the kick drum and make sure that nothing goes into the yellow on the meters. Everything should only be hitting green. Don't worry about the overall level untill the whole track is done because you can raise that in a free program like 'Audacity'.

Other than that the track feels very bare, needs more going on in it and a better control over the structure. A nice lead type element would help the intro along. Also your drum programming feels very rigid. There's no swing and no groove, try listening to a few other tracks but *only* listen to the drums for a bit and you will start to pick up the subtle elements you're missing.

[hifi]

Soundcloud

This is the first 1:40 of my first song, entitled "This is Sparta." Yes, the famous quote from the movie 300 is indeed in the song. I have been working tirelessly to arrange the piece in a way I like, build more synths/samples/loops/etc in Reason, write new peices, etc. so the mixing and mastering sound AWFUL. Keep this in mind while listening and try to get an idea for what the song will sound like when I do mix/master it properly.

If you have any comments, suggestions, questions, etc. please feel free to say something. I am posting this WIP to get as much criticism/feedback as I can to change it and make it as good as possible. Thanks.

P.S.: I forgot to cut the length of the exported loop, so there's around a minute of silence... sorry about that.

that bitcrushed yuh sounds like there is wayyy too much low frequencies there. you have a sub or anything else really clashing with it maybe the kick?
look into mixing down your tracks like EQ and dynamics and such

good start is here to get a basic idea.

http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thin ... q-tutorial

Compression/Limiter tut

http://www.ehow.com/how_2225567_use-a-c ... miter.html

[sam_vogel]

To both of you, again i totally agree. Being an extremely unexperienced producer, my methods for mixing have obviously not worked. What I have been doing is EQ'ing each synth/instrument on it's own, which mostly sounds really good, and then boosting the volumes of all of them. I have now realized that was really stupid, because everything clashes together and drowns out a lot of the sound. I'm gunna re do all the EQ'ing and drop all the levels to 0 and start it over. I may also substitute the sub bass that I created with an 808 bass sample I found, just to make things a little simpler. I'll also take a look at those tuts, thanks alot Hypefiend.

[DoctorPlease]

Its great, idea wise.
fucking scrap production wise.

dont give up
youll get it

[sam_vogel]

Its great, idea wise.
fucking scrap production wise.

dont give up
youll get it

Took the words out of my mouth. I really appreciate the motivation as well. I'll be working hard on fixing the mix/etc tonight, and hopefully throw something up by tomorrow.

[DoctorPlease]

listen to your favorite dub tracks and pay close attention to where the instruments sit in the mix. this will help you with the rough draft mix down. remember you want elements to blend, not over power eachother

[sam_vogel]

Alright I worked on it last night and I feel like everything (besides the drums) sounds alot better... Tell me what you think.

Soundcloud

I haven't really figured out a good way to EQ the drums... I'm using ReDrum in Reason. I tried EQ'ing the whole thing with one EQ/Compressor/Max but that sounded awful.... Should I use splitters and route each part (snare, clap, kick,ride hat, etc) into it's own EQ? I feel that would be the most effective way, it would just take up ALOT of space... but hey, anything to make it sound the best it can.

EDIT: The last part you won't really be able to hear anymore unless you have good speakers/good subs/etc, since i took out almost all the sound from the sub bass besides well... the sub bass.

[DoctorPlease]

Nice improvement. You should definitely eq each drum separately. bass drums need low boost, hig cuts. snare mid boost high and low cut, hi hats need high boost and and everything else cut. your gritty bass sounds needs some umph under it, i would recommend throwing in a single oscillating sine wave on the lowest registry you can still hear it. you might as well do this for the whole track. glad to see you working hard on this. sounds good man

[bigfootspartan]

Alright I worked on it last night and I feel like everything (besides the drums) sounds alot better... Tell me what you think.

Soundcloud

I haven't really figured out a good way to EQ the drums... I'm using ReDrum in Reason. I tried EQ'ing the whole thing with one EQ/Compressor/Max but that sounded awful.... Should I use splitters and route each part (snare, clap, kick,ride hat, etc) into it's own EQ? I feel that would be the most effective way, it would just take up ALOT of space... but hey, anything to make it sound the best it can.

EDIT: The last part you won't really be able to hear anymore unless you have good speakers/good subs/etc, since i took out almost all the sound from the sub bass besides well... the sub bass.

This sounds loads better! If you're using reason I would recommend routing each drum output to it's own compressor/EQ/filter, or at least routing things that are getting different treatments to different EQ/filter/compressor chains. For example, route your kick to it's own stuff. Route your high hats/percussion to it's own stuff. Depending on how many snares you've layered you'll probably wanna EQ them each differently. For example, high pass the snare/clap with the higher frequencies you like and low pass the snare with the low end boom you want.

Also, for the strings in the beginning try adding some reverb, it'll make them sound more natural, plus a bit of reverb on the snare/high hats couldn't hurt. Also, I'm a sucker for atmosphere. Notice how there's that silence in the part before "this is sparta" between the kicks? With some atmosphere it'll sound loads more professional. Usually what I'll do in that case is sample a loud snare or piano with a ton of reverb on it. Reverse that sample, take only the reverb tail and it'll give an atmospheric sound without hijacking the rest of the song. I don't wanna plug my own tune or anything (or maybe I do ) but check out my signature tune if you want to see what I'm talking about, theres 5 reversed reverb tails going on throughout the song. It's a different style than you're going for, but in my experience a ton of atmosphere will always make a song sound better if done subtly.

Keep at it though, that's a great attempt at a first track!

[sam_vogel]

Thank you guys so much! It feels really good to work so hard on something and have the effort be recognized. I will be working on exactly what you guys suggested tonight. as for the emptiness before the sparta clip - i havr been looking for somethig to fill that in for a while. Ill try what you suggested. Again, thanks so much and please keep the feedback up!

[sam_vogel]

Okay... Here's another version. I think I'm getting really close this time... some minor level tweaks and I think I'm going to start writing the last half of the song. More than anything, I'm taking this whole experience as a lesson in EQ and building songs, to make my next songs sound better and cleaner from the get go. Anyways... I guess you gotta start somewhere. Again, if you have any comments/questions/suggestions/etc please shoot away. Thanks again guys.
Soundcloud

[DoctorPlease]

Awesome improvement!
samples can come up a bit tho
i still dont undertand the mosquito sound in the middle of your bassline but its all good

kep up the good work bro!

[sam_vogel]

Awesome improvement!
samples can come up a bit tho
i still dont undertand the mosquito sound in the middle of your bassline but its all good

kep up the good work bro!

If you're talking about the feedback "mosquito" sound that tails off one of the basslines, I spent an entire night trying to fix it to no avail. If you're talking about the high frequency single wave oscillator i made, i just like the way it sounded. I may try switching it out for a more full synth and see how it sounds. Anyways, thanks alot for keeping up and helping me out. You advice helped so much!

[DoctorPlease]

I dunno it just sounds puny to me. but its a matter of tastes when it comes to indiviual sounds i think.

glad i could help

and if your trying to stop something tailing off i would recommend volume automation to automatically turn down the knob when you dont want the sound to play.

[sam_vogel]

Okay... I spent a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY long time trying to get the mix just right, and I still am not 100 percent happy. I re-eq'd everything at least 3 times each, boosted the volumes, and added an 8 band compressor to the whole thing to bring up the volume. I also added in a few things here and there, AND GROOVED THE DRUMS SO THEY DON'T SOUND ROBOTIC ANYMORE. The more I work on the song, but less I feel like it sounds like a professional or even decent dubstep song, and the less I feel I should release it to the public. So, I ask you to think of three things when you listen to this:
1. how has it improved? (you can hear all the other drafts on my soundcloud, or on here.)
2. What still needs to be better?
3.Would you put this on your ipod, or would you laugh at someone who showed you this song and said it was "good dubstep"?

Thanks everyone... you've been an incredible help and source of motivation for me.
Soundcloud

[DaiLow]

yo man, find better drum samples to use, and compare it to other ill dubstep songs to get nice drums goin, but your bass is really dope at certain moments dude. Definitely keep it up, as said before, you'll get it.

[DaiLow]

also, i kno you want advice, but at the same time, dont worry about if other people will say is your music good dubstep, just listen to it yourself and ask yourself if you would consider it good music to you, and just keep swimming.