St. Patricks Day

[alphacat]

Plus what really annoys me is those Irish flag waving Americans. If everyone in America who claimed to be Irish or have Irish heritage then Ireland would have the population of China! "I am Irish, My Great Great Grandfather died of dysentery on a ship sailing from Cork to Boston. That makes me Irish, and my son, and his son." FUCK OFF!

This is an interesting POV that I've heard other Europeans say too. However, the romance of belonging to something much older than yourself is strong and as a country we are so very young: nobody identifies themselves here [yet] as "ethnically American." Most Americans have extraordinarily mixed backgrounds. For instance, 2 of my cousins are German, Chinese, Swedish, Cuban, and a tiny dash of Romanian Jew. Where else in the world would that happen all the time but America? There's no such thing as a pure anything (ethnically) these days save for the most isolated/inbred stone age holdouts. And yet... and yet people cling to these self-definitions for some reason.

Actually, nationalism is for suckers anyway imho.

I'm Irish and basically all paddies day is about here is drinking all day and night,getting unbearably drunk, getting in fights, getting thrown outta pubs/niteclubs, more fighting, wreaking everything and/or getting arrested. That's basically it. It's supposed to be a celebration of being Irish, but instead we indulge in all the negative aspects of Irish society. Goodfun though.

Like this?

[firky]

Plus what really annoys me is those Irish flag waving Americans. If everyone in America who claimed to be Irish or have Irish heritage then Ireland would have the population of China! "I am Irish, My Great Great Grandfather died of dysentery on a ship sailing from Cork to Boston. That makes me Irish, and my son, and his son." FUCK OFF!

This is an interesting POV that I've heard other Europeans say too. However, the romance of belonging to something much older than yourself is strong and as a country we are so very young: nobody identifies themselves here [yet] as "ethnically American." Most Americans have extraordinarily mixed backgrounds. For instance, 2 of my cousins are German, Chinese, Swedish, Cuban, and a tiny dash of Romanian Jew. Where else in the world would that happen all the time but America? There's no such thing as a pure anything (ethnically) these days save for the most isolated/inbred stone age holdouts. And yet... and yet people cling to these self-definitions for some reason.

Actually, nationalism is for suckers anyway imho.

I'd add patriotism to that list too if not just for the horrible tat, porcelain puppies with flags in their mouthes

[clifford_-]

[
This is an interesting POV that I've heard other Europeans say too. However, the romance of belonging to something much older than yourself is strong and as a country we are so very young: nobody identifies themselves here [yet] as "ethnically American."

So its cos the americans have no real history of their own? is that what your saying? becuase i had always wondered why that had the fascination with the paddys...

[64hz]

nothing wrong with Nationalism (in moderation)

its like loving your mother.

[clifford_-]

nothing wrong with Nationalism (in moderation)

its like loving your mother.

my mothers not run by people who make shit decisions and rob me on a daily basis...

(although i do see your point, and agree, when/where its appropriate, national pride is probably a more approprite term!)

[firky]

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

[Duffman]

Extra Cold Guinnness?

GTFO OF IRELAND!

That's nearly as bad as Walkers salt and shake

[alphacat]

So its cos the americans have no real history of their own? is that what your saying? becuase i had always wondered why that had the fascination with the paddys...

Well, we do - but it's not nearly as deep & heavy, in a sense. Americans have little concept of the idea of "the weight of history" like many others do. Like the Chinese: they had a full-on cultural revolution and tried to destroy & negate all ties to their superstitious past by destroying all of the temples, religious documents, etc. Even though many people died and much of that legacy was destroyed as intended - it barely made a scratch on most of the oldest core beliefs (like Confucianism.) Or in the UK where you have a class system that's literally over a thousand years old that effectively prevents most of those born into the lowest classes from ever reaching the highest class (i.e. landed gentry) and where class politics are ever-present, even if they're more subtle these days.

We have nothing like this, which is both A) our greatest strength in that we're not weighed down by our past so much that we can't self-define - and B) is also one of our greatest weaknesses, because what culture we do have is largely based around commodities. Americans think of Europe and think of castles and antiquity, while many Europeans imagine America and think Harley-Davidson, Coca-Cola, and Disney...

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.

[64hz]

nothing wrong with Nationalism (in moderation)

its like loving your mother.

my mothers not run by people who make shit decisions and rob me on a daily basis...

(although i do see your point, and agree, when/where its appropriate, national pride is probably a more approprite term!)

yes, yes it is

and i agree with that quote from albert, but its not gonna go anywhere soon. its not something that can be cured, only grown out of, a slow process of evolving, not a sudden change. imho.

[firky]

My parents house was built before America was even discovered

[alphacat]

My parents house was built before America was even discovered

^ See, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

So many people here see anything older than 50 years as belonging to the mythic past.

[clifford_-]

See! snh can have cool intellegent debate without getting at each others throats! im learning shit here, and enjoying it!

[firky]

My parents house was built before America was even discovered

^ See, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

So many people here see anything older than 50 years as belonging to the mythic past.

Doesn't make your country any less 'worth' though.

Americans need to stop bashing themselves over the head. It comes across to me as some kind of cultural inferiority, as though America is ashamed by it's brash culture (which can be vulgar but no more than the British).

[alphacat]

Absolutely. We need to stop measuring our worth both individually and as a collective by standards of material possession or perceived antiquity.

The beauty of America, in that sense, is that our ability to self-define is still wide open even if we don't realize it. It won't stay that way forever though.

[gnome]

St Patricks day. What a bunch of shite. Especially because the English don't get a day off for it

[lloydnoise]

my lady is Irish but we'll probably stay in, i'll get her some Guinness and we'll smoke some clovers
fuck nationalism

[laurent__duval]

got a shit tonne of work to do i'll not be enjoying st patricks day.

i do find it funny how americans go so crazy for national holidays, like christmas and halloween. i'm perhaps a little bit jealous too. the UK doesn't really to do it in the same way. and if we do its certainly got something to do with the amount of american media mixed in with ours.

[slothrop]

I generally agree with immigrant solidarity, although white americans holding a banner saying "English out of Ireland" need to
a) get a clue about modern Irish politics and
b) get a clue about their own history.

[nowaysj]

Actually I remember reading that the Irish are the second most well-represented national group in America after Germans; the proof is in the number of last names. German last names have the biggest representation, followed by Irish ones shortly behind.

The ethnicity Americans lie WAY MORE about being [than Irish] is Native American.

Was under the impression that when we entered WWI there were more people in the US of german descent than english. Imagine if we sided on ethnic lines, no holocaust, end to england's colonial empire, end to england likely.

And it is my understanding that surprisingly quite a lot of people in america do have native american blood.

And fuck all y'all, there are a lot of people here with irish ancestry.

[DRTY]

It's shit.