WTF America... wtf...

[belalala]

nowaysj isn't Glenn Beck, he's merely pointing out all of the inconvenient truths that most Americans choose to live under complacently. social unrest has been dead in this country since the 70s and isn't coming back anytime soon with the general population's attitude of "it'll all be okay, we're America god dammit!"

why is it that when you present yourself as someone who finds this country to be fucked, then you're likened to sensationalist conservatives? granted, I don't think rationalizing loose gun control laws through failed health care and the job market is the right way of looking at things at all (anti guns entirely), but he did have a lot of valid points on this ol' sinking ship.

[flyingointment]

It's kind of best to own a gun in America, really. The whole concealed carry thing is a bit over the top, though, I don't think most people living here have it that bad.

I'd never get an illegal gun but I'm definitely legally getting one eventually. If some kind of crazy natural disaster or anything that could significantly disrupt the law enforcement infrastructure of the country happened, there would definitely be a lot of looting and violence. I'd hate to be caught off guard on some bullshit...and I have family members to think about. That's not my entire justification for wanting one, though, it's just a good thing to have when violent crime is a part of your reality to any extent. You don't understand because you don't live here. America is a violent place.

I mean, shit, there's one or more serial killers in Long Island right now that have taken like 8 lives or some shit.

[Genevieve]

Yeah, anti-gun Europeans are usually pretty quick to point out how backwards gun ownership is without ever having experienced living in America in the first place. It's a different place and if you want someone dead, you'll figure out how to do it eventually anyway. With or without a gun.

I think violence in America has got more to do with culture than it does with gun ownership.

[belalala]

[Genevieve]

"Someone disagrees? Jesus! We all know only my side is the only one with legitemate reasons"

[flyingointment]

Furthermore, I think it should be understood that in most states, you can't GET a gun legally without an extensive background + psychological check. Getting a concealed carry permit is even harder, you really have to have a spotless record and a good psychological profile, and even then it's not like a given, I know many law-abiding people who have applied and gotten rejected.

Of course, I'm not trying to say that some crazy bastards don't slip through the cracks and manage to get their hands on guns and do horrible things with them, but that would happen regardless.

I'd wager that 99% of people who obtain guns legally in this country don't do it for insidious purposes. Mental health being a variable factor isn't leverage enough to demonize legal and responsible firearm ownership in general.

[belalala]

Genevieve, it is not a personal view that frustrates me, but rather a majority opinion in this country that directly affects policy that I have to live under.

[pkay]

nowaysj isn't Glenn Beck, he's merely pointing out all of the inconvenient truths that most Americans choose to live under complacently. social unrest has been dead in this country since the 70s and isn't coming back anytime soon with the general population's attitude of "it'll all be okay, we're America god dammit!"

why is it that when you present yourself as someone who finds this country to be fucked, then you're likened to sensationalist conservatives? granted, I don't think rationalizing loose gun control laws through failed health care and the job market is the right way of looking at things at all (anti guns entirely), but he did have a lot of valid points on this ol' sinking ship.

I was more so likening him to the 'our country is failing and I don't really feel like providing evidence, however I'm super serious we're in bad shape' like Mr Beck.

I've argued the same exact point before on this website however, I provided supporting facts and qualified my arguments.

[nowaysj]

I don't think rationalizing loose gun control laws through failed health care and the job market is the right way of looking at things at all

I'm personally not advocating anything in relation to gun control laws, I'm just stating it is not hard to understand the way people feel and are reacting to our collapse.

Plus a lot of these people have watched movies and spent a significant portion of their lives playing video games that glorify gun violence. There is nothing cooler than killing bad guys with guns, and a lot of these people are just waiting for the opportunity.

For example, my... uncle in law ... my uncles wife's brother was training to be a police officer in LA when I met him. A week after he became an officer he shot a burglar in the back as the guy was running away carrying a tv. Homie was just itching to shoot people.

It is a mess.

I've personally used a hand gun in self defense. I called the police afterwards, and they showed up 45 minutes later.

This whole situation is a mess.

[pkay]

Furthermore, I think it should be understood that in most states, you can't GET a gun legally without an extensive background + psychological check. Getting a concealed carry permit is even harder, you really have to have a spotless record and a good psychological profile, and even then it's not like a given, I know many law-abiding people who have applied and gotten rejected.

Of course, I'm not trying to say that some crazy bastards don't slip through the cracks and manage to get their hands on guns and do horrible things with them, but that would happen regardless.

I'd wager that 99% of people who obtain guns legally in this country don't do it for insidious purposes. Mental health being a variable factor isn't leverage enough to demonize legal and responsible firearm ownership in general.

Virginia Tech homeboy legally obtained a gun. He also had previous doctors diagnose him with mental disorders.

I'm a realist on the subject tho.... what would happen to El Paso if Texans weren't allowed to carry guns? Do you think the police could defend the city given the nature of Juarez.


Also on the subject of gun control. It's illegal to carry a gun in Mexico, hows that working out for Mexico?

[Genevieve]

Genevieve, it is not a personal view that frustrates me, but rather a majority opinion in this country that directly affects policy that I have to live under.

If we change 'someone' with 'everyone' and what changes then?

I'm not even for or against gun control, but there's very legitemate reasons for why an armed population is a good idea. Trusting a government with all firepower while leaving the population defenseless seems pretty stupid. Just because racist, redneck Palin supporters are anti-gun control doesn't mean the view itself is faulty. But that's a different story and I don't feel like getting into the subject of the mindless "us against them" mentality of American politics.

How much place looser gun laws have in Europe is a different story.

[noam]

Furthermore, I think it should be understood that in most states, you can't GET a gun legally without an extensive background + psychological check. Getting a concealed carry permit is even harder, you really have to have a spotless record and a good psychological profile, and even then it's not like a given, I know many law-abiding people who have applied and gotten rejected.

Of course, I'm not trying to say that some crazy bastards don't slip through the cracks and manage to get their hands on guns and do horrible things with them, but that would happen regardless.

I'd wager that 99% of people who obtain guns legally in this country don't do it for insidious purposes. Mental health being a variable factor isn't leverage enough to demonize legal and responsible firearm ownership in general.

Virginia Tech homeboy legally obtained a gun. He also had previous doctors diagnose him with mental disorders.

I'm a realist on the subject tho.... what would happen to El Paso if Texans weren't allowed to carry guns? Do you think the police could defend the city given the nature of Juarez.


Also on the subject of gun control. It's illegal to carry a gun in Mexico, hows that working out for Mexico?

they get most of their guns flooded from america anyway

[noam]

the issue is mainly with having a nation of people brought to believe they need and want guns

the first step to reducing the amount of gun crime is changing the way the next generation think about gun crime and guns

the most obvious way to do this in my eyes is tightening and restricting gun laws with the eventual goal of slowly phasing out the ability for pretty much everyone to have the right to own weapons

dont accuse me of being naive when you're arguments are based on 'the reality' of the situation with no foresight or intention to change anything about the real problem, the culture of inbred and ingrained violence in society

[LACE]

Bushmaster AR-15 Semiautomatic Rifle


Barrett M82/XM500


Stag-15L

Just a taste of what we owned when I was in the US for a short while after the 2004 Assault Weapons law expired.
You want to have your guns fine..but these aren't really necessary.

[Genevieve]

Bushmaster AR-15 Semiautomatic Rifle


Barrett M82/XM500


Stag-15L

Just a taste of what we owned when I was in the US for a short while after the 2004 Assault Weapons law expired.
You want to have your guns fine..but these aren't really necessary.

Well, you never know when you're attacked by an armada of blue whales on caterpillar tracks.

[pkay]

goal of slowly phasing out the ability for pretty much everyone to have the right to own weapons

yeah that's not gonna happen in the states. ever. by ever, I mean there would be a civil war before that happened.

Also mexico gets their guns from the US because they are cheaper due to location. If the US outlawed guns tomorrow they'd simply get soviet weapons like the rest of the world. As long as dope is making tens of billions of dollars, they'll have guns.

The violence in the US has nothing to do with the legality or illegality of guns. It has to do with the drug culture, and it being one of the only financial opportunities for a large portion of the lower class portion of the United States.

You could make owning a gun an executable offense and as long as the dope game is the only financial opportunity for a lot of people there will be gun violence. The rewards outweigh the risks in a lot of peoples eyes.

Crazy people are gonna be crazy. I don't really weight that as much in the equation as those don't account for most shootings. Drugs, gangs, robberys related to drugs and gangs account for the majority of the violence in the area.

[Huts]

As a college student (Arizona) the last thing I want is a bunch of emotionally unstable college kids with access to unlimited drugs and alcohol carrying a gun on campus. If someone pulled a gun the last thing I'd be thinking about is taking mine out and ending the situation, I'm no hero and neither are the majority of people who advocate guns on campus for safety reasons. I won't speak on gun control laws as a whole, but keep that shit off my campus.

[flyingointment]

the culture of inbred and ingrained violence in society

Ah, yes, because, you know, this is definitely...DEFINITELY something that humanity can and will overcome, and is only a problem in the US, anyway. ^______^

I want some of what you're smoking.

[flyingointment]

One needs to look no further than the Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to see just how things would go down in America if shit were to hit the fan for whatever reason:

Incapacitated by the breakdown of transportation and communication, as well as overwhelmed in terms of numbers, police officers could do little to stop crime, and shopkeepers who remained behind were left to defend their property alone.[42] Looters included gangs of armed gunmen,[citation needed] and gunfire was heard in parts of the city. Along with violent, armed robbery of non-essential valuable goods,[citation needed] many incidents were of residents simply taking food, water, and other commodities from unstaffed grocery stores.[citation needed] There were also reports of some police officers looting.[43] Significant looting continued in areas of the city with few, if any permanent residents, such as the Lakeview, Gentilly, and the Midcity regions.[44]

"Sniper fire" was also reported throughout the city, targeted at rescue helicopters, relief workers, and police officers. One of the possible causes of the sniper fire was resistance to relocation or evacuation.[45] One report of violence involved police killing two people on the Danziger Bridge, which carries the Chef Menteur Highway across the industrial canal, who were unarmed and whose homicides were later found to have been covered up by the New Orleans police who planted a gun and fabricated a story about being under fire [46]

...but yeah, I bet this entire situation would have been COMPLETELY civil for EVERYONE involved were it not for the presence of guns. All those rapes and shit DEFINITELY wouldn't have gone down, because, gosh darn it, humanity's moral character under crisis is just that strong. It was all teh gunz. :'|

Kumbaya, bro. Kumbaya.

[firky]

the culture of inbred and ingrained violence in society

Ah, yes, because, you know, this is definitely...DEFINITELY something that humanity can and will overcome, and is only a problem in the US, anyway. ^______^

I want some of what you're smoking.

American society has an epidemic of violence, you treat your criminals with violence, you practice state sanctioned murder in some prisons. Your pigs carry guns, your security guards carry guns. Violence breeds violence. America is a very violent society - how many acts of violence are there in any given hour on TV in America?

It's not having a go at America to say it is an inherently violent society much more so than any other developed country.