Serious time, folks.

[-[2]DAY_-]

less internet for you, i beg.

[thefrim]

i would like to put out there that Skrillex is clearly a tallented ass producer and therefore it should be obvious that there should be questions about him.
I like Skrillex and Coki equally, but Coki clearly puts way less effort into his tracks than Skrillex who clearly puts massive amounts of care into his writing.
If you don't believe me, than listen to an old school 'real dubstep' track like Coki thats usually 1 loop over and over with subtle variations, compared to a Skrillex track. Then tell me I'm wrong.
I can understand people not liking his more pop oriented style, but to say he's a shit producer is downright ignorant.
That is all. I'm not trying to troll, I'm sick of shit talking about Skrillex. I do agree that Mt. Eden is nothing special though.

[BevOh]

im 15 and used to have cracked massive. i got rid of massive completely...i hate it

just curious. what dont you like about it and what do you use now?

[jrisreal]

im 15 and used to have cracked massive. i got rid of massive completely...i hate it

just curious. what dont you like about it and what do you use now?

I don't like the fact that it relies on pre-built waveforms and doesnt even show what those waveforms look like or how they work. I don't like the fact that it has weird effects and doesnt care to explain what they do (dimensional expander? whazzat supposed to mean?!) I don't like how over-rated it is either.

Now, I mainly use Sytrus and 3xosc. some Atlantis and alot of FX processing. I also work with organic sounds and editing existing sounds so much that theyre unrecognizable...thats always fun

[BevOh]

im 15 and used to have cracked massive. i got rid of massive completely...i hate it

just curious. what dont you like about it and what do you use now?

I don't like the fact that it relies on pre-built waveforms and doesnt even show what those waveforms look like or how they work. I don't like the fact that it has weird effects and doesnt care to explain what they do (dimensional expander? whazzat supposed to mean?!) I don't like how over-rated it is either.

Now, I mainly use Sytrus and 3xosc. some Atlantis and alot of FX processing. I also work with organic sounds and editing existing sounds so much that theyre unrecognizable...thats always fun

fair enough mate never given sytrus or atlantis a try... will have to look into it been fiddling with z3ta lately, dont really like it tho. also i was under the impression you could edit waveforms in massive? maybe im wrong but i could have sworn ive done it before. oh and i love the dimensional expander hahahahaha. but yeah i will kinda agree with u on being overated, actually not so much overated, maybe overused? i cant think of the right word. I only dont say overated because i love using it and even showed it to a mate who makes a bit of house/deep house/electro that usually always disagrees with me on this stuff because he dislikes dubstep and he even said its got serious potential to produce huge sounds. but i guess we already knew that...

[jrisreal]

actually not so much overated, maybe overused?

that's what I meant...typing too fast lol

[ChadDub]

im 15 and used to have cracked massive. i got rid of massive completely...i hate it

just curious. what dont you like about it and what do you use now?

I don't like the fact that it relies on pre-built waveforms and doesnt even show what those waveforms look like or how they work. I don't like the fact that it has weird effects and doesnt care to explain what they do (dimensional expander? whazzat supposed to mean?!) I don't like how over-rated it is either.

Now, I mainly use Sytrus and 3xosc. some Atlantis and alot of FX processing. I also work with organic sounds and editing existing sounds so much that theyre unrecognizable...thats always fun

Seriously EXACTLY why I hate it too.

[tuckerlinen]

I like the idea of splitting the production forum. If a professional production forum were created, the people who know what they're talking about and have valuable input could use it as a functional tool. The arguments within these discussions could have some actual substance and, even if an agreement is never reached, everyone gains a useful perspective. It doesn't seem to me like any veteran users care about reproducing the sounds of Skrillex but I imagine they might be interested in his process (I don't know that anyone is). Such a discussion is impossible in the forum as it stands because anything with 'Skrillex' in the title will get mobbed by people who are more interested in becoming Skrillex than learning from him. It makes sense to separate groups based on experience and knowledge; children have their own table at dinner parties because the adults have some heavy shit to talk about.

Anyone could read the professional forum. The most valuable things I have learned from this forum I haven't been able to really understand. I take advice without understanding exactly why something works the way it does.This would have been much harder (for me) if I had gotten my information from a book on production. Forums get at a truth through rhetorical processes and following a conversation about something you know nothing/very little about is much more enlightening than, say, reading a document. Keeping the production forum fluid is necessary if we want to work together towards original insight.

What I mean is the value of forums is that they're not manuals, they're communal creations. If a community becomes stagnant then progress towards valuable creations stalls.

Of course when I say 'we' I mean 'you'. We aren't working towards anything since I do not contribute. But that's because I don't know much. There is a group of silent members who do not contribute to the static in the forums; we're here to learn. A body of evolving conversations amongst professionals would be an invaluable tool for those participating and those who wish to listen before they speak.
Make a professional forum, decide who is allowed to post, let it be viewable to all, and I feel most of the problems voiced will be resolved.

[nowaysj]

It makes sense to separate groups based on experience and knowledge; children have their own table at dinner parties because the adults have some heavy shit to talk about.

Amen, hallelujah, and right on brohams! (granted, I'm the one always sitting at the children's table throwing olives when the adults aren't looking)

A body of evolving conversations amongst professionals would be an invaluable tool for those participating and those who wish to listen before they speak.

Yes, yes and YES! Would love a forum where I could sit back and just learn/observe.

[jrisreal]

I like the idea of splitting the production forum. If a professional production forum were created, the people who know what they're talking about and have valuable input could use it as a functional tool. The arguments within these discussions could have some actual substance and, even if an agreement is never reached, everyone gains a useful perspective. It doesn't seem to me like any veteran users care about reproducing the sounds of Skrillex but I imagine they might be interested in his process (I don't know that anyone is). Such a discussion is impossible in the forum as it stands because anything with 'Skrillex' in the title will get mobbed by people who are more interested in becoming Skrillex than learning from him. It makes sense to separate groups based on experience and knowledge; children have their own table at dinner parties because the adults have some heavy shit to talk about.

Anyone could read the professional forum. The most valuable things I have learned from this forum I haven't been able to really understand. I take advice without understanding exactly why something works the way it does.This would have been much harder (for me) if I had gotten my information from a book on production. Forums get at a truth through rhetorical processes and following a conversation about something you know nothing/very little about is much more enlightening than, say, reading a document. Keeping the production forum fluid is necessary if we want to work together towards original insight.

What I mean is the value of forums is that they're not manuals, they're communal creations. If a community becomes stagnant then progress towards valuable creations stalls.

Of course when I say 'we' I mean 'you'. We aren't working towards anything since I do not contribute. But that's because I don't know much. There is a group of silent members who do not contribute to the static in the forums; we're here to learn. A body of evolving conversations amongst professionals would be an invaluable tool for those participating and those who wish to listen before they speak.
Make a professional forum, decide who is allowed to post, let it be viewable to all, and I feel most of the problems voiced will be resolved.

Agreed entirely

[wub]

I like the idea of splitting the production forum.

Should we make new users move to the back of the bus as well? Segregation is not the catch all solution that people think it will be. The Production forum model currently operating is fit for purpose. It could benefit from some tweaking to make a few of the FAQs easier to find/navigate for new users, and a change in attitude of some members when responding to The Same Questions™ i.e. cut & paste helpful responses as opposed to "zomg u clunt learn teh search".

[Basic A]

i would like to put out there that Skrillex is clearly a tallented ass producer and therefore it should be obvious that there should be questions about him.

K. Question away. in one of the threads that already exist. No need for there to be 6 on the first page all relating to how to make the same sound, maybe if you lot actually participated in each others discussions youd have this cracked by now.

And dont even bring DMZ into this.

[nowaysj]

I like the idea of splitting the production forum.

Should we make new users move to the back of the bus as well?

Again, this is a mischaracterization of the arguments offered by the deepend forum proponents. I don't know if this is intentional, or you are just not getting their arguments. I hope the latter.

Segregation is not the catch all solution that people think it will be.

Why?

The Production forum model currently operating is fit for purpose.

A lot of people disagree with this. They've expressed their disagreement by either leaving or voicing their thoughts in this thread. It may have been fit at one point, but to a lot of people it is failing.

Why do you think the currently operating model is fit?

and a change in attitude of some members when responding to The Same Questions™ i.e. cut & paste helpful responses as opposed to "zomg u clunt learn teh search".

I've lost my patience a bunch of times here with these thoughtless posters that fill the first page with drivel, not proud of that, I admit that I'm not above it at times.

But why do you have to point the finger at the people that actually remain here for productive reasons, and who are actually willing to help out? Not to be melodramatic, but I see the people who remain despite what has been happening here as the victims. We were here having a jolly old time, and the web equivalent of chavs have overrun this place, and you're going to blame us for getting upset on occasion, without even acknowledging that there is a boat load of trashy loud disrespectful people about?

It is beginning to dawn on me that you really don't see what a lot of people see happening here. I don't know what to say or do about that, really.

[wub]

I like the idea of splitting the production forum.

Should we make new users move to the back of the bus as well?

Again, this is a mischaracterization of the arguments offered by the deepend forum proponents. I don't know if this is intentional, or you are just not getting their arguments. I hope the latter.

Segregation is not the catch all solution that people think it will be.

Why?

I'm going to address both of these as one point - I think a two tiered system is a bad idea. It will build divide, and personally I think it would run the risk of an ivory tower scenario where some (not all, granted) of the more established heads don't venture into the 'Noob Zone' through frustration.

The Production forum model currently operating is fit for purpose.

A lot of people disagree with this. They've expressed their disagreement by either leaving or voicing their thoughts in this thread. It may have been fit at one point, but to a lot of people it is failing.

Why do you think the currently operating model is fit?

We've survived this long without a rating system (either for threads or users), why suddenly bring one in now? The working structure of the board is the same across the other boards. I believe it is more a change in attitude that is required.

and a change in attitude of some members when responding to The Same Questions™ i.e. cut & paste helpful responses as opposed to "zomg u clunt learn teh search".

I've lost my patience a bunch of times here with these thoughtless posters that fill the first page with drivel, not proud of that, I admit that I'm not above it at times.

But why do you have to point the finger at the people that actually remain here for productive reasons, and who are actually willing to help out? Not to be melodramatic, but I see the people who remain despite what has been happening here as the victims. We were here having a jolly old time, and the web equivalent of chavs have overrun this place, and you're going to blame us for getting upset on occasion, without even acknowledging that there is a boat load of trashy loud disrespectful people about?

I'm not point fingers, and certainly not blaming anyone. But using the example of a Skrillex soundalike thread, as I've already stated previously I believe it's a more helpful way of dealing with things to have a response directing the OP to the already existing resources, than having everything turn into a flame way. Again, not blaming anyone

It is beginning to dawn on me that you really don't see what a lot of people see happening here. I don't know what to say or do about that, really.

I do see what people are getting at, but am trying to remain objective about things

[tuckerlinen]

Ideally we could dictate the behavior of all users.

That being said it doesn't mean a change in attitude would not work. But at 1750ish views (now) I don't see the changes being widespread.

I agree there would be an ivory tower effect. Some people will be less concerned with sharing what they know than developing their own understanding. But that forum would be more productive and this is good for everyone. There will still be respected users who contribute to the open forum because some people (more than I would have imagined when I first came here) genuinely want to give back to the music.

Users who want the status (it would become a status thing, I guess that's the nature of segregation) of being respected enough to post in the professional forum would be motivated to contribute to the open forum. If you have to prove yourself capable of constructive communication to get where you want to be, then you will learn how to engage with others productively.

I have no idea how to choose who gets in first and the criteria for acceptance later. That one is tricky.

[symmetricalsounds]

I vote we start a new DSF and leave this one to rot...or we can solve every problem by banning Chad lol

less internet for you, i beg.

jrisreal please listen to 2day.

i know you probably don't think this but you are part of the very problem we're trying to sort out here. you've been registered for a couple of months and have more posts than people who have been here 2/3/4 years.

as was stated earlier the good posts to wasteman posts ratio is weighed so heavily on the waste side atm which is annoying. apart from that i'm with kaori in that there isn't much else wrong. yeah sometimes there is a lack of good threads but we can change that.

for me the ableton q+a thread is my favourite on here, never any bitching, barely any inane chatter which doesn't mean we don't have a laugh but there is a big difference between a cpl of joke posts and tons of inane bullshit. n00bs that come on that thread actually listen when we give them advice. when we say things like if you explain your problem fully, provide screenshots etc... you're more likely to get help they seem to listen. i genuinely try to help anyone in that thread that i can because i know the atomosphere of the thread is always a positive one and it does give back to me too. i pick up tips from there all the time from people of varying experience/knowledge levels.

[serox]

Some nice ideas here!

[jobbanaught]

I vote we start a new DSF and leave this one to rot...or we can solve every problem by banning Chad lol

less internet for you, i beg.

jrisreal please listen to 2day.

i know you probably don't think this but you are part of the very problem we're trying to sort out here. you've been registered for a couple of months and have more posts than people who have been here 2/3/4 years.

as was stated earlier the good posts to wasteman posts ratio is weighed so heavily on the waste side atm which is annoying. apart from that i'm with kaori in that there isn't much else wrong. yeah sometimes there is a lack of good threads but we can change that.

What about a sticky saying "DSF is NOT Facebook" ??? I think the kids just dont get the fact that this place is not primarily for socializing and being a cool guy...

[Augment]

Just an idea...

Not saying that we should split the the experienced and the less experienced, but that the experienced forum should have more advanced questions/topics..

[kaiori breathe]

Noways don't take this personally, but I just went through your previous posts. I did this for a couple of reasons. Firstly you seem to be one of the biggest proponents of the idea that you can't talk about in depth or advanced production theory here, and two, you seem to be one of the biggest advocates of splitting the forum.

So I wasn't really doing this with malice in mind I just wanted to get an idea of what these advanced ideas you want to talk about in depth were, but after almost 6 or 7 pages, I didn't find a single post in your history that was really at a level that would warrant being posted in a new 'advanced' section of the forum. Maybe you're just not talking about these advanced things here for some reason, if so, can you give us an idea of the advanced ideas you'd like to be talking about but feel you can't?

Can any of the people advocating an advanced forum give us an idea of what these so called 'advanced ideas' are? Because I'm at a serious loss as to what these are, and so far, nobody has clarified, and honestly, I don't think the people using this as a pivotal point in their argument even know what these 'advanced ideas' they want to discuss are.