Serious time, folks.

[jobbanaught]

Noways don't take this personally, but I just went through your previous posts. I did this for a couple of reasons. Firstly you seem to be one of the biggest proponents of the idea that you can't talk about in depth or advanced production theory here, and two, you seem to be one of the biggest advocates of splitting the forum.

So I wasn't really doing this with malice in mind I just wanted to get an idea of what these advanced ideas you want to talk about in depth were, but after almost 6 or 7 pages, I didn't find a single post in your history that was really at a level that would warrant being posted in a new 'advanced' section of the forum. Maybe you're just not talking about these advanced things here for some reason, if so, can you give us an idea of the advanced ideas you'd like to be talking about but feel you can't?

Can any of the people advocating an advanced forum give us an idea of what these so called 'advanced ideas' are? Because I'm at a serious loss as to what these are, and so far, nobody has clarified, and honestly, I don't think the people using this as a pivotal point in their argument even know what these 'advanced ideas' they want to discuss are.

I know this is directed at nowaysj, but I think the "advanced" idea at least partly refers to the level of discussion. Having replies related to thread topics would actually be pretty advanced on DSF these days... As of now, most threads are filled 95% with meaningless jokes and opinions. Valid and useful information has become pretty rare. I would rather see 100 threads asking "Whats ADSR?" "Whats LFO?" etc.... then the darn "Wanna sound like XY" and "XY is a noob/demi-god" stuff.

[lysergene]

I'm new to this forum and I can see how anything I say here could hit a sore spot for people who have been here for years... that seems to be an issue in itself, but I digress and apologise in advance

After reading all posts to this thread I would say that tuckerlinen is right on the money here. Such measures wouldn't single anyone out based on style or age. The site needs to be inclusive but exclusive at the same time, and we all know who we want to be excluded - just let them do that themselves by not having the patience to read threads before trying to create one.

I have a feeling that people are googling 'how to make a skrillex bass sound'. dsf comes up as the top hit with the 'Skrillex Massive tutorial' included in the search results.... this will only steer people towards this forum. People who will instantly sign up without reading the rules and make a thread explaining what they want. Not good for the forum.

As with any community there should be things (laws, rules, whatever) in place which prevents the community being destroyed by destructive types, those who don't know any better, or those who don't quite get the ethos of the community.

Tighter rules wouldn't make the site 'unfriendly'. Anyone can come and read the posts on any thread, that's not unfriendly. It would actually make the site more friendly for those who are decent members of the community.

In my opinion it's less friendly to join a community and then start making a big noise about your wants and needs before contributing anything to the community. It's all about reciprocity - give and take. There should be a way of earning some kind of kudos before starting a thread: star ratings; time limiting (being a member for a month before starting a thread); these are pretty good ways of preventing the instant gratification squad from making worthless threads. Making it impossible to create a new thread until you have posted 5 times or more won't work. It's easy to upload ten posts in ten minutes.

After very briefly studying political philosophy, I'd say that the only way forward here is to make it inclusive, but only if you aren't a completely selfish goon. If you don't want the forum to revert to a state of nature with nobody in control then someone needs to take control, do it democratically and move on. There's no need for long term users to leave based on the actions of the selfish... it's up to you guys to make the rules and implement them fully.

G

[hasezwei]

My suggestions for the site would be:

1) Question and answer section, with a respected producer. This is awesome on dogs on acid, and could be great here too.

2) A how to make that sound style thread except we all work together on a different sound each week or month, until we all know how to do it.

3) Minimal negative posting - too many people are too quick to bash on this site. So what if somethings been asked before, either politely refer them or ignore the post and it'll gradually disappear from view. I personally don't like to read through pages of people arguing just to get to the actual information, i'd rather just have the information laid out there in front of me!

4) Enhanced forum abilities, again like on doa where you can attach sounds to your posts.

Just some ideas, i haven't read this whole thread so sorry if some have already been discussed.

THIS! so hard.
i already posted the idea in some other moaning thread but honestly i didn't expect anyone to participate. if it's a stickied official thread tho...

[Medik]

I'm not really seeing the appeal of splitting the production forum into beginner and advanced.
Like Kaiori says, I don't really think any of you know what these advanced ideas your talking about are.

I think what a lot of people really want is a 'bros' and 'heads' split and are trying to use the fact that a lot of the 'bros' on here are beginners to then split it as beginner and advanced.
I think if that was to happen, beginner would be full of skrillex bass threads with noone answering the question because all the people that know the answer (who would usually flame) are in the advanced forum.

I almost feel that a whole forum should be made visible from the board index just for people wanting to recreate other people's sounds although I don't think anyone would end up answering threads there.
Maybe the 'help me make this sound' thread should be stickied although once again I don't know how many people actually open up that thread in mind to answer any of the questions there.

Maybe we could make the Production Bible visible from the index page so that when new members are looking to find which sub-forum to ask their skrillex bass question in then they might see it?

I think people are generalizing the new members as bros and the old members as heads a little too much to. I'm a fairly new member and I aint asking no mid-range bass questions.

[FSTZ]

don't fear change

if you aren't a supertroll that changes user names every six months you should have nothing to worry about.

I'd bet the people that are complaining are the ones that are here for "trollsports" and not to help teach others or learn themselves

chances are, nothing will change anyway

I've seen this same thread about 20 times since 2006

[AllNightDayDream]

Noways don't take this personally, but I just went through your previous posts. I did this for a couple of reasons. Firstly you seem to be one of the biggest proponents of the idea that you can't talk about in depth or advanced production theory here, and two, you seem to be one of the biggest advocates of splitting the forum.

So I wasn't really doing this with malice in mind I just wanted to get an idea of what these advanced ideas you want to talk about in depth were, but after almost 6 or 7 pages, I didn't find a single post in your history that was really at a level that would warrant being posted in a new 'advanced' section of the forum. Maybe you're just not talking about these advanced things here for some reason, if so, can you give us an idea of the advanced ideas you'd like to be talking about but feel you can't?

Can any of the people advocating an advanced forum give us an idea of what these so called 'advanced ideas' are? Because I'm at a serious loss as to what these are, and so far, nobody has clarified, and honestly, I don't think the people using this as a pivotal point in their argument even know what these 'advanced ideas' they want to discuss are.

I think the idea of an exclusive sub-forum is a bit comical and pretentious. If it were to happen, there is nothing to discuss that hasn't been hammered home by the many resourceful threads you can find in the stickies, and even if there was something to bring up, those threads are still there and they're not locked. The sub-forum would be a desolate wasteland with the occasional pretentious rambling that isn't going to translate into anyone's tunes.

As someone who has played many instruments all my life, production is most definitely more of a science than any other route of music making. But only up to a point. This is still an art. You can't teach creativity. I think some people just don't understand that. There is only so much to gain from reading technical manuals, tuts, and discussing production all day.

Remember where we are. This is a message board on the internet. This is a community of people. What the internet is so useful for is connecting people. People keep talking about the good old days when everyone was always helping each other and there was that sense of community. Splitting the forum is only going to take us in the opposite direction. Especially the whole "advanced" thing... There's something inherently wrong with that. There are already great ideas in here for the forum to tackle with. It isn't up to any mod to make some arbitrary little change to magically transform this place into some producer mecca (It's already there). What you guys are looking for is that community, that care-free environment. In all honesty, it's mostly you old dogs who are always making snide little comments to the filth-heads that are chipping away at any hope we have to find that kind of welcoming environment. These kids are producers like us, who are at a spot we have all been in. They are the future. If you just embrace them and help them with their trivial problems, they'll eventually grow like every musician does and wander into territory outside of the over-saturated filth.

It's this whole new generation thing that is ruining the entire forum, not just this one. The constant deep/filth divide that's eating at everything, even while many who are ahead of the pack are already creating insane music that transcends genres and labels. You watch all the documentarys and hear from the old heads about how dubstep is about acceptance, community, love, and just pure vibing. From the moment I joined this forum i've come to question that, especially from some of the things you veterans say. It tends to be the newer people who are here just to enjoy the music.

Pardon me I've had a really bad morning and I tend to ramble

[nowaysj]

In reverse order:

Can any of the people advocating an advanced forum give us an idea of what these so called 'advanced ideas' are? Because I'm at a serious loss as to what these are, and so far, nobody has clarified, and honestly, I don't think the people using this as a pivotal point in their argument even know what these 'advanced ideas' they want to discuss are.

The most important advanced ideas would be mutual respect and maturity. Haha, not a technical thing, but in a more rarefied atmosphere with consequences for bad behavior, ie getting voted off the island, constructive conversations would be possible. The overwhelming majority of those conversations would likely not be about how to get a cracked version of massive to work, or how to make a skrillex bass.

I didn't find a single post in your history that was really at a level that would warrant being posted in a new 'advanced' section of the forum. Maybe you're just not talking about these advanced things here for some reason, if so, can you give us an idea of the advanced ideas you'd like to be talking about but feel you can't?

Well, Inspector Clouseau, you don't have to go far back in my post history to find my thoughts on this one. Check the middle of the last page of this thread where I said this:

Would love a forum where I could sit back and just learn/observe.

I mean it, though. I don't see myself being the hyper-poster that I have been in a potential deepend forum.

But a few things. First, I'm a professional sound designer. This means that I know a little about production. I'm not holding myself out as a master producer, hardly, there are people here who know way, WAY more than me. But, given the opportunity, I could contribute a little insight, and at the very least ask some questions that could help other people. I would really like to have a group of people around who are knowledgeable enough to be able to address some of the questions I have, and I'm sure I could field a few myself.

Second, looking back at most of my recent posts, other than me being a dick out of frustration, probably most of what you'll see is me addressing the artistic side of production, encouraging diversity, experimentation, and a desire for other producers to find their own voice. These aren't exactly high level posts that I'm making, but I think it is a useful point of view to have interjected into threads that might get a bit myopic in chasing a singular sound or effect or style. (also, many of my technically oriented posts were made some time ago and were deleted when dsf moved to its current home, kind of a bummer, cause I wrote them to be a resource for future newbs)

Third, atmosphere is very important. You don't see me engaging in high level discussions because there aren't really high level discussions happening. Zeitgeist is a real thing, and the current zeitgeist is how can I clear up this acne, and how can I get these downloaded patches to work in my cracked massive. You're just not going to get a bunch of heads together dropping wisdom when that is the current atmosphere.

Firstly you seem to be one of the biggest proponents of the idea that you can't talk about in depth or advanced production theory here, and two, you seem to be one of the biggest advocates of splitting the forum.

I might be one of the most vocal people in this thread, granted, but if you read this thread you'll see that some people agree with me, so to an extent I'm speaking for them, and beyond that, I'm speaking for the people that you don't hear from because they've left, or don't believe that this yearly thread that we're having will produce any kind of results.

In terms of me being a big advocate of splitting the forum, let me just say that I'm an egalitarian at heart. I loath segregation, and elitism. In the past, I've been fairly neutral on this reoccurring suggestion but subtly argued against it as there are definitely potential downsides to a deepend, but with that said, I've seen this place just fall apart, and I see this as a last ditch effort. I basically think there is nothing to lose at this point. So, yeah, I'm advocating for it. But I think you can relax, as I don't really think my suggestion is going to happen. And I've got to stop spending so much time in this thread.

[ChadDub]

I doubt having an Advanced sub-forum would help anything. If you guys think it will help the exchange of knowledge, you're wrong. I ask questions almost everyday and I almost never get answers. It's usually just flaming.

I mean, that's why I ask so many questions, because I know there are people here that are more knowledgeable than me and I want to learn, but I usually just get shit. It's not good. Why can't we just be a family and help each other out?

[FSTZ]

Why can't we just be a family and help each other out?

the trolls wont let that happen

[3za]

I think we need DSF 2.0.

[FSTZ]

I think we need DSF 2.0.

or perhaps just focus on threads that pique our interest

for me that would include threads about Reaktor, Access Virus, Cubase, etc...

I just ignore all the shit waster threads that comprise 90% of this sub forum

I don't think a "advanced" forum is the answer, but a reputation system will name and shame the supertrolls

[nowaysj]

Why can't we just be a family and help each other out?

the trolls wont let that happen

Honestly FSTZ, I mean honestly, are you chad?

[ChadDub]

Do you think he is me? I am a blessed yetti.

[FSTZ]

my dsf accounts are FSTZ, FSTZ1, Freddy_Fapp (my rap alias) and Kojak (which I forgot the password to that account)

I have no time to troll

[3za]

my dsf accounts are FSTZ, FSTZ1, Freddy_Fapp (my rap alias) and Kojak (which I forgot the password to that account)

I have no time to troll

Ain't you got a uncle fester (or something like that) account, I can remember it when I had a different user name

Anyway he was joking, suggesting that chad is a troll.

[FSTZ]

my dsf accounts are FSTZ, FSTZ1, Freddy_Fapp (my rap alias) and Kojak (which I forgot the password to that account)

I have no time to troll

Ain't you got a uncle fester (or something like that) account, I can remember it when I had a different user name

Anyway he was joking, suggesting that chad is a troll.

when admins opened the ability to change your name.. I changed that account into this one and the other FSTZ account to fstz1

annnnyway.....

[nowaysj]

If you're not trolling as chad, you really shouldn't take up chad's cause here, because he is the typification of what I'm seeing as the problem here on dsfp. Chad's peers, those with the same experience level and baby sister skull rape propensities, get their questions answered, and receive all the help they need. Chad doesn't get anything but flames because he is a total c.unt wasteman.

[FSTZ]

If you're not trolling as chad, you really shouldn't take up chad's cause here, because he is the typification of what I'm seeing as the problem here on dsfp. Chad's peers, those with the same experience level and baby sister skull rape propensities, get their questions answered, and receive all the help they need. Chad doesn't get anything but flames because he is a total c.unt wasteman.

none of this is helpful

I'm outta here before I get wrapped up in these reindeer games

[hifi]

[lysergene]

This could depend on how we define the word 'production'.

For me it means making a piece of music, and all that we do to achieve that from conception to mastering/sending to people (including the artwork which I steal from google images ).... Most of which seems to be covered elsewhere in the forum.

If we are defining production as 'engineering a mix' then that implies dealing with a finished piece of music, an achievement which could be described as advanced.

am I a troll now? :s