gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[Iorek]

ok heres the deal: im a complete newbie when it comes to mixing and mastering. i read this thread from the start and macc's talking about gain on the peak output, and how it should be like -8 db for drums etc. i use reason, and i dont see a fuckin master gain output that shows levels in negatives; is this just me being a complete n00b not knowing what the fuck macc's on about, or is it just that in reason maybe they show this whole output thing in a different number format?

I use ableton and it doesn't have numbers either. numbers aren't important though get it to the general area and then use your ears.

here's an example of the numbers on fl studio, look at the ones on the right

[nowaysj]

One of the drawbacks of reason. They actually have a meter in there now though, I think, in 5.

[traffek]

ok heres the deal: im a complete newbie when it comes to mixing and mastering. i read this thread from the start and macc's talking about gain on the peak output, and how it should be like -8 db for drums etc. i use reason, and i dont see a fuckin master gain output that shows levels in negatives; is this just me being a complete n00b not knowing what the fuck macc's on about, or is it just that in reason maybe they show this whole output thing in a different number format?

I use ableton and it doesn't have numbers either. numbers aren't important though get it to the general area and then use your ears.

here's an example of the numbers on fl studio, look at the ones on the right

ableton does have numbers mate. just make your volume tracks a bit taller and even wider if you need to.

[Iorek]

learn something every day lol

[mrlithium]

ableton does have numbers mate. just make your volume tracks a bit taller and even wider if you need to.

You mean this?

Yeah I know what number the track is set to, but theres no numbers on the meters to see where its actually hitting.

[gyu]

ableton does have numbers mate. just make your volume tracks a bit taller and even wider if you need to.

You mean this?

Yeah I know what number the track is set to, but theres no numbers on the meters to see where its actually hitting.

No mate, in the mixer view you can make the tracks taller by dragging and numbers appear

[Aphile]

Session view. Directly above the track volume bars, click the dividing and drag up. You will see one box after the first snap, another box after the 2nd snap. These boxes show peak level and track level. Stretching further allows for more precise visual level identification.

[Dankstep]

This thread has been a massive help to my mixing and production in general. Pretty crucial info especially to those who just started producing, most people go in making everything super loud because they compare to other songs and dont realize their power comes from mixing down/proper mastering/limiting etc.

[mrlithium]

This thread has been a massive help to my mixing and production in general. Pretty crucial info especially to those who just started producing, most people go in making everything super loud because they compare to other songs and dont realize their power comes from mixing down/proper mastering/limiting etc.

Exactly. I just encountered a self-mastered album called "Billions and Billions - Billions and Billions" (self titled). and not dubstep.
Look how the waveforms look in Ableton. http://i56.tinypic.com/n30vuq.jp It was so loud it lost all power and energy and sounded quite noisy tinny and distorted

[gyu]

This thread has been a massive help to my mixing and production in general. Pretty crucial info especially to those who just started producing, most people go in making everything super loud because they compare to other songs and dont realize their power comes from mixing down/proper mastering/limiting etc.

Exactly. I just encountered a self-mastered album called "Billions and Billions - Billions and Billions" (self titled). and not dubstep.
Look how the waveforms look in Ableton. http://i56.tinypic.com/n30vuq.jp <-- THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT NOT TO DO.

tbh you can't tell just by looking, it might sound ok.
I think the point is not to limit stuff this much if it's going to be mastered.

[macc]

tbh you can't tell just by looking, it might sound ok.

I think the point is not to limit stuff this much if it's going to be mastered.

Or, limit at all

[nowaysj]

Job security ^ only ME's can use a limiter?

[gyu]

tbh you can't tell just by looking, it might sound ok.

I think the point is not to limit stuff this much if it's going to be mastered.

Or, limit at all

Yeah, that's what I meant to say

[macc]

Job security ^ only ME's can use a limiter?

Ok Mr Pedantic;

'Or, limit your final mix at all if it is going to be mastered'

Better now? Jeez...

[nowaysj]

It is better! Individual channels there were being limited. Or apparently so, was zoomed out pretty far. Not the final mix though...

[Ldizzy]

back on the fader thing..

i strongly recommend free g for any daw...

[tripwave]

this IS the money thread! alot of you need a big thanks!!!!

[nowaysj]

i strongly recommend free g for any daw...

I used free g for a while. I think I noticed it was using more cpu than I thought it should. Am I tripping?

[Ldizzy]

i wouldnt use it on each channel... unless i was really balancing for reals...

just on the master channel... ive never noticed it being a real cpu hog tho...

[samkablaam]

little question about mastering....

I know a lot of people say that it's best to leave 3-6 dbs of headroom when sending stuff of to be cut, and the reason sort of makes sense to me.

But I've started to convince myself it doesn't make sense. Correct me whenever I go wrong, but surely if you're working digitally, the mastering engineers will be rearranging all these bits anyway and can deal with a 24 bit file that doesn't have many spare bits left.
And if you're working analogue-ly(?) you'll be doing you're own dac-ing anyway.

A lot of producers I work with send masters off with almost no headroom left (like 0.1 dB) and the mastering guys never complain, and these are seasoned mastering companies, with really serious client lists.

I've sent electronic music off with loads of headroom and haven't noticed an improvement in mastering compared to sending stuff off with no headroom.

Is it something to do with the way daws sum stuff if you touch a fader? Or is it just trying to make sure the stuff sent to mastering hasn't got like intersample clips? Or?

safe