Mono vs stereo mixing

[futures_untold]

DSF forum user 'Nitz' is wondering about mixing in mono or stereo.

I quote from the Reason Q&A thread:

I really never got this mono v stereo debate? Can someone please enlighten me?

What channels are people keeping mono and what channels are you keeping stereo, I've always been a bit confused on this topic. I'm currently keeping things like the kick, sub, clap and snare mono.

Additionally, I've been reading today that panning is bad? It was very brief research i was doing so by far means i do not have complete comprehension on this, but reading around some people seem to think panning is bad, cuz it sounds like crap on mono

I know your meant to check your mix downs in mono and see if they sound good because places like club and radio are mono, but they some argue when you re-adjust things to make it sounds nice in mono it sounds crap in stereo..

Any advice or insight that can be shared upon choosing to mix for mono vs stereo is appreciated!

What are the reasons we mix in mono instead of stereo?

Patrick

[Electric_Head]

eh?

[-[2]DAY_-]

i've never checked a mix in mono... afaik stereo recordings are standard, so that's what I mix and mixdown to.... I keep sub bass (of course) and some other basses mono, as well as drums sometimes, because it gives me the centered sound i am after. Afaik, recording in stereo panned center is pretty much the same thing in most cases, but mono sounds MORE centered.
I also record percussion such as hats, claves, little clicks and pops in mono a lot.. reason being, in stereo when you pan it typically just raises the volume of one side while lowering the other.... with a mono channel, the voice is much easier to locate individually in the stereo field, and when u pan it across, it literally pans the signal. For that reason i like to sprinkle my drum beat with percussion tracks that are in mono and panned left and right... they sound like they're really moved around, rather than just leaning one way or another.

Besides that, i record in mono when doing guitars, vocals, or anything else coming in on a mic because i don't have a stereo preamp. SOmetimes i insert a mono->stereo plugin and continue to mix those channels in stereo if i like the sound better. Often its more full having a signal on both sides even if it's right down the middle.

Anyway i don't concern myself with checking mixes in mono. My stuff never sees the club, and if it did, i'm confident it would sound ok.... or if it sucks, its probably not because of this stuff. Plenty of systems push a stereo signal, no?

[nitz]

Depending on who the song is intended for, if it intends to be commercial then the song must sound good in mono as most clubs are, things sound muddy or things sound loss when played in mono, which sounded very good in stereo. If it is intended for home (ish) use what i think personally is screw mono, make is song lush as you want.

As FU pointed out, things under 100hz should say mono, such as kick and sub. Other things are discretionary upon what can of vibe you are going after.

In reason, when it comes to mastering, if you use a stereo imager in you in chain of processes, set the x over freq to where you want, say 200hz, and now on the low band move the nob to mono, this now makes everything under the hz you have entered mono.

Also, be careful not get the big mono problem.

When using stereo tracks for things such a pads and arp's be careful, as things can sound too wide when lots of processing is added to it. Try make that nice wide stereo field, yes, but don't over do it.

Don't hard pan/over stereo, instead i never pan a stereo channel at the main mixer, i only pan the channels within the comb.

That's my 2cent on the matter. subjective to opinion

[-[2]DAY_-]

yeah panning layers in a combi is a great way to get spread... then keep combi output centered. fun to automate the levels and panning inside the combi. Although, given my first post, I could be causing problems if played in mono. I dunno, i never been played on a system. I always see two channels (L+R) pumping on people's VU meters though, so i dun get it...

[nitz]

Back in the day, such a thread would have kicked off with all sort of interesting points... what's happened to this place...!

[legend4ry]

Well, if you mix down in Mono and it sounds brilliant - when putting it back to stereo, I can garentee you it'll sounds 20 times better without having to make major adjustments and its a good practice (a long winded one, mind) to get better mix downs and think about panning more.

The only time i'd mix down in Mono is if its going to be a personal dubplate which is only going to be played on club sound systems - even though i'd only ever do it, if it was a very centered and minimal track.. Why?

Well, with EDM these days as much as music is for the dancefloor it also gets played on internet radio which will be stereo - (most major FM stations as far as I know still broadcast in Mono though, this might be a urban myth?) as well as being released for general (or commerical) listening. Its almost like the loudness war - with Ipods being a huge thing these days, you don't want a non-wide track coming on after a huge stereo track because it'll sound 'weird' to the general public, this includes club go-ers!

Mono isn't outdated by any means but when you're making electronic music its harder to put your point across in mono as opposed to music made by a band.

On the sub bass and low end being mono rule.. This only applies for cutting vinyl/accetates - you can have a stereo bass if your track is going to stay digital as long as there isn't phasing or anything like that.

Just my theory on the matter anyways.

[daft cunt]

The way I see it there are 3 questions to ask to decide whether a track should be mono or stereo :
* Is there a technical reason to make it mono or stereo, like the "everything below 150 Hz should be mono when cutting to vinyl" thingy ? Vinyl's dead and I don't know any other strict rules...
* Does it sound better in mono or stereo ? It might be the placebo effect or that I'm just used to it but I do find for instance that everything below ~ 300 Hz + kick, snares & claps sound better in mono for hard hitting EDM. Everything atmospheric like echoing bleeps, reverb pads and stuff like that is stereo in my book.
* Mixing stage : does panning a track differently would make a better mix ? You have 2 conflicting instruments, panning them differently might just be the solution. Widening an instrument by expanding its stereo field might leave more space for other instruments, etc.

Pay attention to the stereo field when listening to music, notice your personal preferences and start adding them to your own tunes until it comes instinctively.

Regarding the mono vs stereo in clubs, radio, bla bla, don't let yourself suck into it. Just don't. 99% of us have 2 ears & 99% of sound systems (hifi, car, whatever) are stereo so just make your tunes in stereo.

[Electric_Head]

damn, I replied before you had explained the thread.

[RandoRando]

seeing how i always see "the mix will fall apart on a club system" when people talk about stereo sub bass, does this mean things like panned hi hats, synths etc. will sound shit also on a big club system? one that i mono i mean..

[gen_]

* Is there a technical reason to make it mono or stereo, like the "everything below 150 Hz should be mono when cutting to vinyl" thingy ? Vinyl's dead and I don't know any other strict rules..

No.1 Vinyl is far from dead mate, sure it wont make you a million anymore, but it definitely matters especially in this world where everyone and their granddad is starting a label.
2 the reason why you center your bass is not because of vinyl its because a wide sub is a shit sub. Phase cancellation means if you play it on a system with a central sub, it'll cancel most of itself out and sound quiet as fuck.

* Does it sound better in mono or stereo ? It might be the placebo effect or that I'm just used to it but I do find for instance that everything below ~ 300 Hz + kick, snares & claps sound better in mono for hard hitting EDM. Everything atmospheric like echoing bleeps, reverb pads and stuff like that is stereo in my book.

Trust your ears, you're right. Whenever you mix in stereo it's power vs width as a totally mono sound has both speakers doing exactly the same thing. A stereo sound that is very wide has both speakers occasionally phasing (where one cone goes in as the other comes out reducing the collective air pressure they make and making shit quieter)

* Mixing stage : does panning a track differently would make a better mix ? You have 2 conflicting instruments, panning them differently might just be the solution. Widening an instrument by expanding its stereo field might leave more space for other instruments, etc.

Pay attention to the stereo field when listening to music, notice your personal preferences and start adding them to your own tunes until it comes instinctively.

Bang on, just remember that two clashing sounds panned away from each other = two quieter but still clashing sounds when played in mono, so don't use this track on anything that's gonna be the bread and butter of your beat.

Regarding the mono vs stereo in clubs, radio, bla bla, don't let yourself suck into it. Just don't. 99% of us have 2 ears & 99% of sound systems (hifi, car, whatever) are stereo so just make your tunes in stereo.

Regarding this, I have to disagree. Every open air festival I've been to has played in mono because each of the PA stacks is so far from each other that its pointless to do otherwise (plus it makes the systems sound louder for the very reason I mentioned above.) Plenty of clubs do it as well, especially if thier sound guy realises the system is a bit on the weak side for the size of the venue.

[Electric_Head]

* Is there a technical reason to make it mono or stereo, like the "everything below 150 Hz should be mono when cutting to vinyl" thingy ? Vinyl's dead and I don't know any other strict rules..

No.1 Vinyl is far from dead mate, 2 the reason why you center your bass is not because of vinyl its because a wide sub is a shit sub. Phase cancellation means if you play it on a system with a central sub, it'll cancel most of itself out and sound quiet as fuck.

* Does it sound better in mono or stereo ? It might be the placebo effect or that I'm just used to it but I do find for instance that everything below ~ 300 Hz + kick, snares & claps sound better in mono for hard hitting EDM. Everything atmospheric like echoing bleeps, reverb pads and stuff like that is stereo in my book.

not placebo. Reality. Whenever you mix in stereo it's power vs width as a totally mono sound has both speakers doing exactly the same thing. A stereo sound that is very wide has both speakers occasionally phasing (where one cone goes in as the other comes out reducing the collective air pressure they make and making shit quieter)
* Mixing stage : does panning a track differently would make a better mix ? You have 2 conflicting instruments, panning them differently might just be the solution. Widening an instrument by expanding its stereo field might leave more space for other instruments, etc.

Pay attention to the stereo field when listening to music, notice your personal preferences and start adding them to your own tunes until it comes instinctively.

Regarding the mono vs stereo in clubs, radio, bla bla, don't let yourself suck into it. Just don't. 99% of us have 2 ears & 99% of sound systems (hifi, car, whatever) are stereo so just make your tunes in stereo.

[/quote]

Nice post

[futures_untold]

So what's the consensus?

Mono = Soundsystem tune
Stereo = Headphones tune

But what about internet radio and separately, commercial radio?

[gen_]

Internet radio is the same as Mp3 really, so It would depend on the bitrate the station is outputting, if you've got any less that 128kbps your stereo field will have been compressed to shit anyway so you may as well go mono.

And commercial radio is innately stereo in nearly all countries so your best off to keep it that way.

[daft cunt]

Interesting thoughts gen.

No.1 Vinyl is far from dead mate, sure it wont make you a million anymore, but it definitely matters especially in this world where everyone and their granddad is starting a label.
2 the reason why you center your bass is not because of vinyl its because a wide sub is a shit sub. Phase cancellation means if you play it on a system with a central sub, it'll cancel most of itself out and sound quiet as fuck.

The bit on vinyl was more of a joke really but chances are far more important to get a digital release and you can count on the ME to tell you what to do to your mix if there's wrong for cutting to vinyl.
Nice input on the bass. I guess that's what I figured out without putting words on it.

Regarding this, I have to disagree. Every open air festival I've been to has played in mono because each of the PA stacks is so far from each other that its pointless to do otherwise (plus it makes the systems sound louder for the very reason I mentioned above.) Plenty of clubs do it as well, especially if thier sound guy realises the system is a bit on the weak side for the size of the venue.

That's what people say but so what ? Do people write tunes in mono anyway ? I don't think so. Chances are a good stereo mix will translate just fine in mono if your instruments sit on their own frequency range/are played in the right octaves. Don't let the quality of your mix rely exclusively on panning fixes and you'll be fine.

[gen_]

Interesting thoughts gen.

No.1 Vinyl is far from dead mate, sure it wont make you a million anymore, but it definitely matters especially in this world where everyone and their granddad is starting a label.
2 the reason why you center your bass is not because of vinyl its because a wide sub is a shit sub. Phase cancellation means if you play it on a system with a central sub, it'll cancel most of itself out and sound quiet as fuck.

The bit on vinyl was more of a joke really but chances are far more important to get a digital release and you can count on the ME to tell you what to do to your mix if there's wrong for cutting to vinyl.
Nice input on the bass. I guess that's what I figured out without putting words on it.

Regarding this, I have to disagree. Every open air festival I've been to has played in mono because each of the PA stacks is so far from each other that its pointless to do otherwise (plus it makes the systems sound louder for the very reason I mentioned above.) Plenty of clubs do it as well, especially if thier sound guy realises the system is a bit on the weak side for the size of the venue.

That's what people say but so what ? Do people write tunes in mono anyway ? I don't think so. Chances are a good stereo mix will translate just fine in mono if your instruments sit on their own frequency range/are played in the right octaves. Don't let the quality of your mix rely exclusively on panning fixes and you'll be fine.

True on all points, sorry I was using a razor sharp tone for no reason at all mate!

You do make a good point about writing tunes in mono, but honestly, check your stereo field. Listen to a mono mix and the Left Channel going through both speakers, just so you can fine tune it and you know what it will sound like when you go and play it live. Its better to be safe than sorry.

[symmetricalsounds]

yeah worth checking in mono every now and again, i generally don't worry too much about it though.

[olyko12]

How do you mix in stereo but keep the things below 200Hz or so in mono?
Changing each individual sound or what?

[-[2]DAY_-]

record those instruments whose sweetnesses are below 200Hz in mono?
alternatively use a stereo imager/mid-side processing on instruments, groups or master bus

[samkablaam]

My 2p on the mono, stereo thing...

Write in stereo, mix in stereo, but always check in mono, the same way you check on different systems and headphones. People will listen in mono, whether you want them to or not. On radio, , in clubs, ipod docks, laptop speakers etc.

And commercial radio is innately stereo in nearly all countries so your best off to keep it that way.

As far as commercial radio... they might not broadcast in stereo. Theres no fm standard saying you have to and tbh, do you have a good stereo image in your car? If i was a commercial radio broadcaster, I wouldnt waste money on broadcasting in stereo. No one would notice. You can even just send the stereo pilot tone and make the magical stereo light come on without broadcasting stereo.