What do I actually need to know?

GothamHero · Post by **GothamHero** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:33 pm

Education wise. Not only for Dubstep, but overall electronic music production. I've completed several books on music theory and composition, because honestly, I like knowing about the history, science and evolution of Music, it's fun to me. Then I drifted into drum programming techniques, and individual genre guides. Now, I'm just going back and forth between synthesis study, articles, and random production videos I found on YouTube. My question is, is all this information necessary, not necessary as in do or die, but will it improve production? I know a lot of people are angst towards music theory, and they're great producers, but I feel more comfortable having an idea of what I'm doing; even if they aren't rules set in stone, it's still pretty helpful to me. But now I'm stuck between being too uncomfortable to produce, and too stubborn to read anymore opinionated advise. Music is about free expression and there are no rules, so I feel I'm wasting a big chunk of my time accessing such books and videos. Not sure, only time will tell to be honest.

My biggest problem is sound design, haha. I think that is the only struggle I will face with production. Having an idea in your head, and being so down trotted when it doesn't come to fruition. Haha, that is the worst feeling. And this is also the hardest to learn, because there is only advice and mathematical / scientific analysis on synthesizers themselves, the rest is experimentation. Bummer.

Eh, I drifted off, but anyway, where do you think the line is drawn before I should buckle down into production? At what point did you drop the books, start producing, then learn from there; and is that the most effective learning style you had, and most beneficial period of your producing?

narcissus · Post by **narcissus** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:13 pm

IMO every musicians NEEDS to know AS MUCH as she/he can possibly know about music.. and think about it twice that much..
i wouldn't sweat the fact that you are unsatisfied with your current productions. that is the mark of a perfectionist who knows what they want -- if you ask me you're on the right track brother.

my personal path .. i started learning piano around oh, 8 or 9, just cuz my older brother played and i thought it was cool.. my teacher taught me some theory.. then i switched teachers a year or two in and the new one always pushed me (to my dismay) to learn theory as solid as i could.. i stuck with it a bit, but honestly was more interested in climbing trees and video games.. however she made it fun enough that it all became solidified in my being.
at about 12 or 13 i had some shitty midi/tracking software (called cakewalk 'express'..) it had general midi that could be triggered with a grand staff view, which, when i figured it out, i used to write down my own notes and chords, after hearing the demos that came with the program... since notes on a staff is what i knew.. i didn't know what soft synths were .. but eventually found out you could put native effect plugins on the general midi sounds once you bounced them to audio... and from then on it was soo on.. tweak city .. haven't looked back since. and when i finally heard some real techno and trance.. oh my i was hooked.. of course since then my musical background has expanded to included almost every genre, but EDM was one of my first loves and my strongest currently.
so there you have it... about 2-3 years to gain a working knowledge of music.. then started writing.. and once i had that solid, THEN got into aural experimentation. fast forward half a lifetime and you find a musician who creates what his heart desires..
long story short, if you are having fun learning, continue to learn all you can. it can't hurt.

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:45 pm

Everyone has different needs, Hendrix didn't know theory, neither did Van Halen. Beethoven couldn't hear. It's all about you specifically.

For me, knowing music theory helps me a TON because now I can just take a random key and make a song out of it. I've also been doing some interval training and now I can basically just hum a random melody and can play it straight away on the guitar or piano.

Just do you.

Sine69 · Post by **Sine69** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:57 pm

What Chad said.

For me personally, reading articles doesn't help at all. The only way I can learn is by opening up ableton and producing.

GothamHero · Post by **GothamHero** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:18 pm

narcissus wrote:IMO every musicians NEEDS to know AS MUCH as she/he can possibly know about music.. and think about it twice that much..
i wouldn't sweat the fact that you are unsatisfied with your current productions. that is the mark of a perfectionist who knows what they want -- if you ask me you're on the right track brother.

my personal path .. i started learning piano around oh, 8 or 9, just cuz my older brother played and i thought it was cool.. my teacher taught me some theory.. then i switched teachers a year or two in and the new one always pushed me (to my dismay) to learn theory as solid as i could.. i stuck with it a bit, but honestly was more interested in climbing trees and video games.. however she made it fun enough that it all became solidified in my being.
at about 12 or 13 i had some shitty midi/tracking software (called cakewalk 'express'..) it had general midi that could be triggered with a grand staff view, which, when i figured it out, i used to write down my own notes and chords, after hearing the demos that came with the program... since notes on a staff is what i knew.. i didn't know what soft synths were .. but eventually found out you could put native effect plugins on the general midi sounds once you bounced them to audio... and from then on it was soo on.. tweak city .. haven't looked back since. and when i finally heard some real techno and trance.. oh my i was hooked.. of course since then my musical background has expanded to included almost every genre, but EDM was one of my first loves and my strongest currently.
so there you have it... about 2-3 years to gain a working knowledge of music.. then started writing.. and once i had that solid, THEN got into aural experimentation. fast forward half a lifetime and you find a musician who creates what his heart desires..
long story short, if you are having fun learning, continue to learn all you can. it can't hurt.

Haha, cheers. Really inspiring timeline here, and it'll make a great biography in interviews when you make it big. "Continue to learn all you can. it can't hurt.", that really stuck. Very true.

ChadDub wrote:Everyone has different needs, Hendrix didn't know theory, neither did Van Halen. Beethoven couldn't hear. It's all about you specifically.

For me, knowing music theory helps me a TON because now I can just take a random key and make a song out of it. I've also been doing some interval training and now I can basically just hum a random melody and can play it straight away on the guitar or piano.

Just do you.

See, I knew Van Halen had no music theory knowledge, and Beethoven being deaf, but I never suspected Jimi. That would explain his eccentric playing style. "now I can basically just hum a random melody and can play it straight away on the guitar or piano.", Christ, I can't wait to develop such an ear for music. I normally just play simple melodies, record, expand, and carry on from there.

Sine69 wrote:What Chad said.

For me personally, reading articles doesn't help at all. The only way I can learn is by opening up ableton and producing.

Oh yeah. I can replicate this. I'll try that for an entire day and see how much progress I make. Then rinse and repeat, amirite?

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:31 pm

The ear for music thing isn't too hard, it just takes like 6 years of playing music,

ToxicBass · Post by **ToxicBass** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:46 pm

I don't think you should ever drop the books. Nobody knows everything about music production and anybody who claims to is a egoistical fucktard and wrong.

You need to balance your learning and producing. Producing gives you the experience which you can use to work out your weaknesses so you can spend your learning time correcting them. If you don't find the balance you'll either end up with heaps of knowledge on how to compress things but have no idea how to even start writing a track or writing cute melodies with a non existent mixdown and a set of presets.

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:49 pm

Yeah like, lately I've been randomly going into FL and writing a melody just because I feel like it, and then after I have that 8 bar loop all written out, I mix everything down. So I'm getting my dose of both things. Production and composition. It's helping a lot with both. I do this at least once a day, but not because I think I have to, I do it cuz I like to

Before I know it, I'll be writing random 16 bar loops, and then writing whole songs just right out of my ass effortlessly.

ToxicBass · Post by **ToxicBass** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:30 pm

Well that's it. The more times you go through that process of sound selection, writing and then mixing the better you'll get.
Captain obvious reporting for duty sir

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:52 pm

Heartless · Post by **Heartless** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:46 am

Everyone learns theory. It's just that some make a conscience decision to learn it and others just wing it and pick up on things as they play.

Spend your time studying and applying what you are learning.

Sound design is all down to experience. Eventually after programming so many patches, creating the sound you want is second nature.

3za · Post by **3za** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:04 am

You was born into this world with zero knowledge, and your doing just fine.

cloud capture · Post by **cloud capture** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:53 am

All you need to know is what you love to hear. Pick up some cheap instruments on craigslist or ebay, acoustic guitar, or an old synth and start having fun. Either you'll play them once and never again, or you will play them every day because you love it. And voila, you're a musician. I would do something like this first before ever turning on a computer.

RandoRando · Post by **RandoRando** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:47 am

I just sit and make noises on fm8 more then make songs

Ldizzy · Post by **Ldizzy** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:28 am

the thing a lot of people fail at is making emotionally relevant shit...

i know i will sound like a dude shopping for the most original post on the thread but really, im not...

the thing that has helped me the most with music is dancing.

i was a dancer first. and i still am. and that helps.

it could be something else, but what im saying is uve got to learn to FEEL the tunes, understand the whole dialogue that goes on between the sounds and stuff...

all the theory that u read about will eventually back that very basic reflex and ull be able to hear each element -and the greater whole- better.

so heres my humble advice
:

never stop reading, learning, theorizing, experimenting, practicing
but always set some time aside to get a renewed FEEL for some tunes u like..

sorry if this doenst make sense, im boozed up.

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:22 am

That makes sense to me, but maybe I'm getting some completely different from what you're saying.

I've been trying to learn how to control the emotion of my music, so it isn't just random notes. Learn what certain notes do over certain chords, etc.

Maybe that's not what you meant but yeah.

RandoRando · Post by **RandoRando** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:06 am

ChadDub wrote:That makes sense to me, but maybe I'm getting some completely different from what you're saying.

I've been trying to learn how to control the emotion of my music, so it isn't just random notes. Learn what certain notes do over certain chords, etc.

Maybe that's not what you meant but yeah.

can you make a chart for dsf?

ie:

happy chords...
happiest chords...
mellow chords...
depressing chords...
sad chords...
really sad chords...
im tripping out chords...
etc...

GothamHero · Post by **GothamHero** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:27 pm

RandoRando wrote:
ChadDub wrote:That makes sense to me, but maybe I'm getting some completely different from what you're saying.

I've been trying to learn how to control the emotion of my music, so it isn't just random notes. Learn what certain notes do over certain chords, etc.

Maybe that's not what you meant but yeah.
can you make a chart for dsf?

ie:

happy chords...
happiest chords...
mellow chords...
depressing chords...
sad chords...
really sad chords...
im tripping out chords...
etc...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZ3GreS0pwg/T ... Bmusic.jpg

Alby D · Post by **Alby D** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:56 pm

ChadDub wrote:Everyone has different needs, Hendrix didn't know theory, neither did Van Halen. Beethoven couldn't hear. It's all about you specifically.

of course hendrix knew theory have you listened to that guy play?

mayb he couldn't read music bt damn he knew those scales n modes inside out

ChadDub · Post by **ChadDub** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:39 pm

RandoRando wrote:
ChadDub wrote:That makes sense to me, but maybe I'm getting some completely different from what you're saying.

I've been trying to learn how to control the emotion of my music, so it isn't just random notes. Learn what certain notes do over certain chords, etc.

Maybe that's not what you meant but yeah.
can you make a chart for dsf?

ie:

happy chords...
happiest chords...
mellow chords...
depressing chords...
sad chords...
really sad chords...
im tripping out chords...
etc...

I'm still learning... I'd actually like to know this myself XD

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