Bass processing for loudness?

[xrylex]

my production struggle this week is getting the right volume/perceived loudness from my midbasses...

let me state first off that yes ive read the gain structure awesomeness thread.
im all about proper gain structure.
so my drums are loud, parallel compressed, and slam! my drums are peaking around -7db on the master..

also, i have read the shit out of every damn bass thread on this forum. just because people have asked lots of questions about basses and processing, it doesnt mean there is any useful info in half those threads. a ton of those threads are filled with "skrillex sucks" "borgore sucks" "robots suck" "why would you want to sound like someone else" "use the dsf google" and alpaca references.. so saying "READ THE BASS STICKY" doesnt actually help.

ok so, the questions.. HOW DO YOU GET YOUR MID BASSES LOUD prior to mastering??

now when i mix my mid basses to what i think is an appropriate volume in relation to the drums, then bounce down a test mix (with or without some heavy limiting as rough mastering) and give it a go in the car.. here is the problem:
my mid basses sound quiet as shit.
(even when i match the volume level of my track next to mastered brostep banger's volume level)

so my questions and current experimentation is on:
- compressing my bass buss
- parallel compression for midbases
- heavy (parallel) tube saturation
- general idea where bass buss should be peaking on the master


i know some of you guys have to be struggling with this as well because this is not an easy one.
tips? thoughts?
thnx!

[samkablaam]

turn them up?

ive got no idea where your synth should hit on the meters. but if its quiet, turn it up. if its dynamic range is too big, compress it. if it gets lost in the mix, eq some space for it on another channel.

[jrisreal]

ive had this problem, i think its caused by the eq curve in the car, but thats just a guess.

[Sparxy]

Mastering is the process of making your tune loud. Perceived loudness of individual elements depends on your mixdown. Mixing down is the process of getting all the individual elements of your tune sounding right gain-wise, in relation to each other. Most dubstep producers will mixdown their drums the loudest, where you personally want to put certain items depends on the tune and your personal taste.

TL:DR mix your bass so it is as loud as you want to be within the track, master the track as a whole to get your tune loud

[Atac]

Sounds like a mixing problem.

Is there anything else significant that is hitting in the same frequency range?

[matb123]

When I am trying to get my basses to sound louder than they actually are, I add effects to them such as chorus's, reverb's etc...

This makes them seem louder because they are wider depending on how you use these effects of course.

Another little trick i use is adding the izotope 4 plugin on my bass bus. It has a very nice stereo imager which works in bands ie. to make your high-mids wider whilst still keeping your sub in mono...

You could also add a limiter to your bass channel to get a few extra db out of it without the signal going over the output that you set on the limiter.

[blinx]

Do people ref there mixes (unmastered) in multiple systems?

i usually mix on my monitors then master, test the master on ref systems, remaster accordingly and then ref on other systems again.

[RandoRando]

turn everything besides the midranges down. this will make your midrange stick out. now adjust minimally to perfect it/

[Ldizzy]

I dont know whatsup with your car vs monitors...

if there are discrepancies between the way they paint a musical image... the same symptoms should appear with anything u play thru... maybe u could "prime ur ears" with other songs you like and see how and HOW MUCH they vary between the two playback systems... technically they should vary ...

if they don't, then i say ur monitoring system is inadequate and there's something in ur working environment that hides imperfections...

u didnt mention why or how u found the volume limit at which ur midbass would sit in ur daw... but by the title of the thread i suspected the following :

if u put ur midbass at a certain spot because over that it was unpleasing... it may be because u have some harsh frequencies oddly louder then the essence of ur midbass.. if u spot them and turn them down with notches on a very good eq, it should allow u to push the sound further up... without it sounding screechy or unpleasant..

but the way u describe it doesnt suggest that ...

[xrylex]

Ldizzy you the man.

i think thats totally what i needed to hear. i think you are likely right, ive got some harsh frequency content going on that sounds totally shit if the buss is cranked higher in the mix. im gonna freq sweep/notch out that shit and re-adjust everything....

the volume limit i current had found for midbass was just trial and error and "ok that sounds about right". with drums i always have an idea where they should hit. with midbass, im always guessing.

and yeah as far as monitors.. i cant trust em as im in a room with shit acoustics, hardwood floors, high ceilings, etc.. so i have to check everything on multiple systems for comparisons... headphones, my car, etc... totally sucks. im trying to do A/B comparisons with the same reference material on all the systems.

[wormcode]

(even when i match the volume level of my track next to mastered brostep banger's volume level)

Are you turning their tune down, and not turning yours up? That will make for better judgement because you aren't concerned with their mix sounding so loud when listening. The mids/highs/bass should be pretty close to each other when their mix is turned down (assuming yours isn't already mastered too).

[Dreadfunk]

Saturation is a good way to squeeze some volume out of a sound without using a compressor.

But as some have said, just turn it up. If you have your drums where you want them, then mix the rest of the tune around the drums. If you're going into the red after adding mid-range bass, then you may need to compress it, or try some saturation (which essentially clips the signal, though if you do it right you can't hear it and it makes it *pop* out in the mix.)

[Electric_Head]

(even when i match the volume level of my track next to mastered brostep banger's volume level)

Are you turning their tune down, and not turning yours up? That will make for better judgement because you aren't concerned with their mix sounding so loud when listening. The mids/highs/bass should be pretty close to each other when their mix is turned down (assuming yours isn't already mastered too).

^ this

[xrylex]

(even when i match the volume level of my track next to mastered brostep banger's volume level)

Are you turning their tune down, and not turning yours up? That will make for better judgement because you aren't concerned with their mix sounding so loud when listening. The mids/highs/bass should be pretty close to each other when their mix is turned down (assuming yours isn't already mastered too).

well im turning down the mastered reference track and turning mine up to find a balance in the middle. i def get what you are saying about better judgement at lower levels.. good point.

thats not really the issue tho, its not over all track volume im worried about. so when my track and a reference track are played at roughly the same volume, sub bass and drums are about even, but my mid basses just aren't as dominant as the reference track...

it sounds simple to say "turn up the midbasses" but when i do the mix sounds like ass. it drowns the drums and everything else.. and without another reference you would hear it and say "wow all i can hear is the midbass" turn that shit down.

so the point/question is how can i get PERCEIVED LOUDNESS from my midbass? (not how do i turn up my midbass in the mix)

[xrylex]

Saturation is a good way to squeeze some volume out of a sound without using a compressor.

But as some have said, just turn it up. If you have your drums where you want them, then mix the rest of the tune around the drums. If you're going into the red after adding mid-range bass, then you may need to compress it, or try some saturation (which essentially clips the signal, though if you do it right you can't hear it and it makes it *pop* out in the mix.)

cheers for this.

i had already been thinking i needed some heavier saturation, im going to try some slight compression, saturation, and im already working on notch eq'ing some rouge frequencies as ldizzy had suggested earlier.

thanks everyone for their suggestions, its awesome to have a place to go online to post some questions when i hit a wall. the responses here have been really helpful to already get me thinking about things differently.

[Manic Harmonic]

Here's my 2 cents. I'm not that great at getting my mixes loud, but I do have a little bit of input on this.

First of all, have you tried compressing the bass with standard compression rather than parallel? Parallel compression sounds awesome, especially on drums, but it's not necessary on a lot of things in order for them to sound good.

Second of all, from the sound of it, it sounds like the drums aren't cutting through enough until you turn them up enough that it is overpowering the bass, but this is only audible on some speaker setups. If you haven't already, it sounds like the best solution would be using some sidechain compression on the bass, fed by a click track in the same sequence as the kick and snare. If you set the compressor right, you won't hear the bass being turned down, but you WILL hear the drums cut through better which will give you more headroom.

[xrylex]

Here's my 2 cents. I'm not that great at getting my mixes loud, but I do have a little bit of input on this.

First of all, have you tried compressing the bass with standard compression rather than parallel? Parallel compression sounds awesome, especially on drums, but it's not necessary on a lot of things in order for them to sound good.

Second of all, from the sound of it, it sounds like the drums aren't cutting through enough until you turn them up enough that it is overpowering the bass, but this is only audible on some speaker setups. If you haven't already, it sounds like the best solution would be using some sidechain compression on the bass, fed by a click track in the same sequence as the kick and snare. If you set the compressor right, you won't hear the bass being turned down, but you WILL hear the drums cut through better which will give you more headroom.

im only sidechaining the kick to my sub.. but are you saying to sidechain both kick and snare patterns to my mid bass?
i actually hadnt thought about using sidechaining, or with both kick/snare... but i love the idea of it.

[wormcode]

Another thing is monitors, what are you using for making tunes? Sometimes you just have to over or under compensate certain frequencies if you don't have pro monitors and some treatment. Most lower end models are lacking a bit in the mids and highs. After a while it becomes second nature to compensate, which is why it's sometimes difficult to get a good mix on brand new monitors.

[xrylex]

Another thing is monitors, what are you using for making tunes? Sometimes you just have to over or under compensate certain frequencies if you don't have pro monitors and some treatment. Most lower end models are lacking a bit in the mids and highs. After a while it becomes second nature to compensate, which is why it's sometimes difficult to get a good mix on brand new monitors.

i mentioned this earlier but im in a shit room at the moment. i cant trust my ears at all in this room, its a loft, so huge open space with high ceilings and hardwood floor.. not to mention the echo... so im having to do a ton of A/B checking in headphones and in my car.

im traveling all the time right now, so its pretty common for me to be working on tunes in headphones whenever i have free time. its def not an optimal way to be writing tracks, but at the same time, id rather be working on something rather than waiting til i have a perfect room to work out of..

[blinx]

even if your room isnt treated properly you shouldnt yuo beable to "trust" your years expecially if your accustomed to listening to pro tracks on your setup? isnt this part of training your ear? Im not tyring to say your doing anything wrong i jsut think maybe over thinking things a little to much and making the process of mixdown (which is tough enough) even harder on yourself, by not allowing your self to use your monitors as monitors?