gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[arktrix45hz]

is there such thing as leaving too much headroom? i have an umnastered mixdown peaking at -8 now

Most of mine peak at -10db, I wouldn't worry.

[macc]

is there such thing as leaving too much headroom? i have an umnastered mixdown peaking at -8 now

You have a relative noise floor of -136dB, or are effectively using 23 bits. So, 'not bad'

For reference, to have an equivalent noise floor to 16-bit, you'd be peaking at -48dBFS. I think you're alright

[nowaysj]

BUT I PAID FOR THOSE BITS!

[jyro]

Thanks for the info

So what is the optimal db for a mixdown?

[Electric_Head]

Thanks for the info

So what is the optimal db for a mixdown?

Don`t joke.
There`s no ONE value.
It`s all specific to the track being produced.

[wirez]

Thanks for the info

So what is the optimal db for a mixdown?

Don`t joke.
There`s no ONE value.
It`s all specific to the track being produced.

To be fair there is an optimal value which is between -6 & -3dB peak.

[mr_wobble]

Mastering question!
hey i just got some of my mastering back from a dude i sent my track to do them,
but i can hear some weird clicking and popping sounds .
is this normal?
can it happen through mastering?
should i could contact him about this matter or could it be a latency thing on my sound system?
i went back to my original WAV but no clicking sound there..
what do you think it could be?

[nowaysj]

Def sounds like an amateur mastering job. Yes, improper usage of limiters and comps, and god knows what else can give you those little clicks, pops and all sorts of distortion running from subtle to gnarly. If your system can play a stereo wav file, likely isn't your latency or anything like that. Could be intersample peaks, and your sound card's da just shitting it.

[wirez]

Mastering question!
hey i just got some of my mastering back from a dude i sent my track to do them,
but i can hear some weird clicking and popping sounds .
is this normal?
can it happen through mastering?
should i could contact him about this matter or could it be a latency thing on my sound system?
i went back to my original WAV but no clicking sound there..
what do you think it could be?

Fuck that, question it.

[macc]

Mastering question!
hey i just got some of my mastering back from a dude i sent my track to do them,
but i can hear some weird clicking and popping sounds .
is this normal?
can it happen through mastering?
should i could contact him about this matter or could it be a latency thing on my sound system?
i went back to my original WAV but no clicking sound there..
what do you think it could be?

Not right... not right at all.

Get back to the engineer and let him know how you feel.

[COURT]

macc you are a breath of fresh air to this forum.
i salute you sir.

[dublerium]

this thread is an utter god send. I'm just starting to produce and without this knowledge I would have been fucked; royally. I wasn't trying to push everything anyway as it seemed logical to keep the levels down, but this thread takes the info to a whole new level, a level that would have taken me many years to work out. Out to macc, big up.

[ScatterbrainMusic]

Really good thread

[inDistinkt]

this thread is an utter god send. I'm just starting to produce and without this knowledge I would have been fucked; royally. I wasn't trying to push everything anyway as it seemed logical to keep the levels down, but this thread takes the info to a whole new level, a level that would have taken me many years to work out. Out to macc, big up.

Bigup to anyone who's added to this thread. Or added anything to the forum in general. Years is no exaggeration when I think of how long it'd have taken me to learn all I know without this place.

[GothamHero]

Is lowering the master volume in Massive equivalent to lowering the channel volume?

I ask because I'm not sure where my pad should sit db wise.

[nowaysj]

Depends on how you lower the channel volume.

A good rule of thumb, mentioned many times in this thread, is to get your levels right at the source (Massive in this case).

[xrylex]

ive got a question on induvidual channel fader levels (not volume) as the signal flow i use in my daw has me second guessing my individual channel levels a bit.

i run my drums thru drum bass, basses thru a bass buss, as well as synths,fx,vocals thru busses... now i also do a couple of submix busses after this.. drums/bass together, and pretty much everything else in another submix buss.. ive got plently of headroom, and my mixes are fairly loud..

here is my question.. does it make any sense to have my individual channel faders pulled lower than 0db?

for example.. should my kick channel fader be at 0db? right now my kick channel fader is at -10, but it hits around -9db on the master (after saturating/parallel compression/etc.) my drum buss fader is it at -10 and my submix fader is at -8. my entire mix is hitting about -7/-6 on the master.

ive tried it both ways, individual faders pulled down to say -10 or whatever for the kick.. or leaving individual channels left at 0 and pulling down the buss faders so that the peaks are still in the same range as before on the master...

like i said ive got plenty of head room everywhere, and i use limiting fairly agressively within my mix so there are no issues with clipping to worry about. it basically only changes how hard im pushing things thru my busses/submix channels.

is there any sonic/dynamic difference here?? i cant really tell if there is or not..

[wirez]

Sounds to me like your dynamics are going to be smashed to fuck either way, I've always avoided this way of mixing whereby you're as good as limiting everything to 0dB so that the channel faders are in fact near enough displaying the same output as the volume, but then it is part of the sound to have everything smashed in sounds influenced by Breakbeat or Jump-Up DnB.

To me personally, the sound of a smashed limiter is just as bad as a clipped sound, either way it's still distorting.

Just use your ears and stop worrying about what you're seeing on the screen... As long as you've got your mix balance right, everything is sounding right timbre-wise and you've given yourself at least 3dB headroom on your master then that's all that matters.

[nowaysj]

My suggestion in this situation is to see if you can get your gain set at the source, before the sound generator hits the mixer channel. You can do this if your mixer has trims at the top of the channel, or if your daw allows you to adjust the volume of the generator, or through adjusting the gain within the sound generator itself. This will allow you to keep your faders around 0db, where they like to be.

But more importantly, this will also prevent you from clipping within your fx. Not all fx are 32 bit float. If you have a sound generator outputting at ~ 0db, any gain boost in your fx chain will likely exceed 0db. Not a problem if you pull your channel fader down in terms of the mix, but it could be a problem within your fx chain. Making sense? Just get it right at the source. It will not hurt you in ANY way to have your hottest sounds coming INTO the mixer at -12db.

[macc]

^ Great post.

Saying the same thing that's been said in this thread a zillion times but in yet another new way

If it helps someone new to get the idea then it's alllll good!