Who REALLY cares about the loudness war?

[RandoRando]

Dynamics every time.
Dynamics are important for moods, and playing with emotions. Compressing and limiting can be used to aid dynamics too, so using them doesn't automatically kill dynamics, you still have to abuse them to squash the sound. Then if it's mastered, it gets the limit/compress treatment again, then in most clubs it will be limited yet again.

I have looked at many very loud well mixed/mastered tracks that are still only peaking around -6db and you can still see peaks and valleys. In some cases they are even "louder" than ones at 0db.

are you saying some professionally mastered tracks peak at -6db?

[wormcode]

Dynamics every time.
Dynamics are important for moods, and playing with emotions. Compressing and limiting can be used to aid dynamics too, so using them doesn't automatically kill dynamics, you still have to abuse them to squash the sound. Then if it's mastered, it gets the limit/compress treatment again, then in most clubs it will be limited yet again.

I have looked at many very loud well mixed/mastered tracks that are still only peaking around -6db and you can still see peaks and valleys. In some cases they are even "louder" than ones at 0db.

are you saying some professionally mastered tracks peak at -6db?

Yeah of course, it wasn't always common for things to be getting to 0db. I'm not talking about dubstep though, I meant general music. Should have made that clear. Admittedly much more common in older music too. Though I have come across dubstep tunes that were pretty far from 0db as well, it's not unheard of, but yeah rare these days.

Brian Eno - Apollo comes to mind, a lot of the tracks are peaking -6db and a couple -12db and it's still plenty loud and dynamic. Of course this isn't club music, so I'm not using it in comparison to dubstep, just general loudness.

.wav imported from the CD directly into Sound Forge

[wub]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

[jaydot]

No.

[Heartless]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

Chaining limiters? My god...

[RandoRando]

Has anyone chained limiters? I could see it being creative processing...

[wub]

Has anyone chained limiters? I could see it being creative processing...

Was that a serious question? I don't know with you sometimes.

[Electric_Head]

as serious as the plague

[wub]

as serious as the plague

Plague of Dynamic Squashing that sweeps through the land?

[Electric_Head]

it`s all about the loudness plague sweeping across the land like a hungry zombie.

[Mersikil]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

The OP of that thread asked how to get his tracks louder for bedroom DJing etc. PRIOR to having them mastered. Limiting is the easiest way to make a track louder. Multiple limiters in sequence doing a little work >>>>>>>>> 1 limiter doing all of it. You are acting as if I said 'slam your wobbelz thru teh limiter, that will make them sound gooder' when I was in fact offering the simplest solution possible to his question.

I don't see what the problem is? take an unmastered track, reference with a commercial track and try and match loudness with one limiter. Now try and match loudness with 3-4-5 limiters. Tell me which sounds better.

We are not talking about mastering here.

[wub]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

The OP of that thread asked how to get his tracks louder for bedroom DJing etc. PRIOR to having them mastered. Limiting is the easiest way to make a track louder. Multiple limiters in sequence doing a little work >>>>>>>>> 1 limiter doing all of it. You are acting as if I said 'slam your wobbelz thru teh limiter, that will make them sound gooder' when I was in fact offering the simplest solution possible to his question.

I don't see what the problem is? take an unmastered track, reference with a commercial track and try and match loudness with one limiter. Now try and match loudness with 3-4-5 limiters. Tell me which sounds better.

We are not talking about mastering here.

Irrespective of the context, the comment itself still makes me laugh. You'll notice I omitted your name when I quoted - my jibe wasn't aimed at you.

[Sparxy]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

The OP of that thread asked how to get his tracks louder for bedroom DJing etc. PRIOR to having them mastered. Limiting is the easiest way to make a track louder. Multiple limiters in sequence doing a little work >>>>>>>>> 1 limiter doing all of it. You are acting as if I said 'slam your wobbelz thru teh limiter, that will make them sound gooder' when I was in fact offering the simplest solution possible to his question.

I don't see what the problem is? take an unmastered track, reference with a commercial track and try and match loudness with one limiter. Now try and match loudness with 3-4-5 limiters. Tell me which sounds better.

We are not talking about mastering here.

Or just learn how to make it louder using a combination of compression, limiting and EQ. Tell me which sounds better!

[Mersikil]

Cheers for clarifying mate. I'm not a dubstep producer, but been producing hip hop for a looooong time. I joined this forum to a) learn about synths, and b)escape the thousands of 12 year olds trying to sell their 'hot beatz' they made with their 'cracked fruity loopz' that populate pretty much every hip hop forum out there.

Ironically I came off looking like one of them. I admit that sentence does look funny.

I think you guys would be pretty disgusted by some of the things we have done in the studio over the years in order to meet deadlines/make things work etc. But at the end of the day that stereo wav is all that matters, and if it sounds good roll with it regardless of what anybody else says.

Anyway, cool forum, I'm enjoying reading and enjoying the music.

wub, I'm more than happy to link you to our labels website over pm (not that we're big-timers or anything, just enjoying the anonymity) if you're interested.

[wub]

wub, I'm more than happy to link you to our labels website over pm (not that we're big-timers or anything, just enjoying the anonymity) if you're interested.

By all means

[Sparxy]

But at the end of the day that stereo wav is all that matters, and if it sounds good roll with it regardless of what anybody else says.

Bottom line right there mate, the ears don't lie at the end of the day
Welcome to the forum anyway man, you'll find alot of peeps on here enjoy a bit of banter and debate, myself included, don't take it personally, just get involved and roll with it.

PS I still think the multiple limiters thing is insane

[AllNightDayDream]

You know what, I actually do like some of the characteristics of limiting, it does something for me.

But, i always try keep the 'sound' of dynamic music, but alas I always push into the limiter. Theres a really good Loudness vs Dynamics article in this months Sound on sound. Its a really good read and blows some pretty good myths on limiting killing dynamics.

Just finished this, extremely interesting read.

[hifi]

Every time I read the word 'limiter' on here, I'm reminded of this comment from last week;

yep, you can put multiple limiters on the master to get it to a level close to a commercial track.

Still makes me chuckle

The OP of that thread asked how to get his tracks louder for bedroom DJing etc. PRIOR to having them mastered. Limiting is the easiest way to make a track louder. Multiple limiters in sequence doing a little work >>>>>>>>> 1 limiter doing all of it. You are acting as if I said 'slam your wobbelz thru teh limiter, that will make them sound gooder' when I was in fact offering the simplest solution possible to his question.

I don't see what the problem is? take an unmastered track, reference with a commercial track and try and match loudness with one limiter. Now try and match loudness with 3-4-5 limiters. Tell me which sounds better.

We are not talking about mastering here.

1 or 2 or even 3 limiters. it's still going to get compressed.