Sending mastered tracks to a label?

[Toric]

I have worked for bigger companies than you - and yeah, I know what IS possible in the music industry, but that doesn't mean it is possible for mid-sized Dubstep labels/artists. I used to be a classical booking agent where I would secure fees ranging from 10k-50k per gig for most of the solo artists on the roster... and the unknown, up & coming soloists would get 3k-5k. Do you know how ridiculous it would be if I tried to apply that to Dubstep - to say.. "hey, if you are an unknown DJ - you should be demanding at least 3k per gig, otherwise you aren't really a DJ"...

Things are very different in EDM than they are for almost any genre. Sure - even for punk or metal, 10k units of a 7" is a drop in the hat.... but that just isn't the case for electronic music. A lot of notable labels are still run by only 1 or 2 people. Warp has a decent sized staff - and there are a few people working for labels like Ninja Tune, Planet Mu, etc... but to act like most labels (let alone Dubstep-centric labels) have marketing TEAMS?? You are simply regurgitating what your marketing 101 class told you there *should* be in place, not knowing for a fact the way things are. Most of these labels, if they have *anyone* purely for marketing, will have 1 person... or more likely, they farm it out to a publicity firm. But they don't have dedicated Marketing Teams. And as far as going to networking conventions... what conventions have you been going to where you have seen Deep Medi, Hyperdub, Tectonic, etc "representatives"? For someone who demands proof from other's claims - let's see your proof. Let's see an attendance register of a networking gathering with "representatives" of the aforementioned labels listed.

To say if a label doesn't go to a networking convention otherwise they wouldn't be in business is as naive as it is baseless. Take Ad Noiseam for instance - been in business for 10 years, coming up on their 150th release, well respected in dubstep, drum & bass, industrial and noise scenes... run by 1 person. Nic. No marketing teams, no convention-going... just a lot of graft and consistently puts out good music. According to you, they shouldn't even be in business - an anomaly incapable of existing...

Very well said.

Too bad he's got absolutely no point. How can you argue that I don't know shit about the dubstep industry because I come from another industry when he comes from a different industry himself, wub?
Also you deleted the wrong post, damn it.

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

Regardless I'm done arguing with people who don't want my advice. If you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern. Stop sucking wind.

-T

[Toric]

TBH id rather sign a hobby producer, it would mean they're not only out to line their own pockets and have a passion for the music and the scene, unlike you who seems to be seeking mainstream success, only in it for the cash (which i'm pretty sure you're not going to get having listened to your tunes) and is full of bullshit.

There are so many more of your points I can call you out on but I don't have the time. I think most people can read your complete BS and come to the right conclusion anyway. I find it unbelievable that no one in this thread has agreed with you, you have been proven wrong multiple times yet you are still fighting your corner and preaching absolute arse.

I don't know about you but I got into music because I loved it. If I ever earn any money off of it, its a massive bonus. But for the meantime i'm happy just to be involved, doing what I love.

Yes, I am out to line my pockets, and so are you. Don't fool yourself. don't be a white knight about the situation. If you had the chance to make a ton of money you would, and I'm sure you hope for the best for your label right? If you don't, why the FUCK would I sign to you?

I have bills to pay, and like I said, a genetic illness to take care of which means my kids are PROBABLY going to have the same illness. Mainstream success or not, I want to support myself with music, so I've done the necessary research to make money at it. It's called marketing, and if you don't know how to do that then you're not a label I'd sign with.

Getting an artist radio play is a FEEBLE accomplishment for a label.

-T

[wub]

Too bad he's got absolutely no point. How can you argue that I don't know shit about the dubstep industry because I come from another industry when he comes from a different industry himself, wub?
Also you deleted the wrong post, damn it.

He has a very valid point, and tbh I'll believe his figures/facts over yours any day, as they seem far more plausible.

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

This will be presumably be another 'fact' that you can't prove/back up?

f you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern.

Honestly, some of the people who have responded on this thread operate record labels. Not multi million dollar internationals with distribution through Universal, admittedly. But they still have record labels that release tunes that people buy and DJs play.

Stop sucking wind.

Look who's talking

[wub]

Yes, I am out to line my pockets, and so are you. Don't fool yourself. don't be a white knight about the situation. If you had the chance to make a ton of money you would, and I'm sure you hope for the best for your label right? If you don't, why the FUCK would I sign to you?

I think this neatly sums up the flaw in your whole discussion - your utter failure to grasp the concept that some people might not be into making/releasing music for the same reasons that you are.

[Toric]

Too bad he's got absolutely no point. How can you argue that I don't know shit about the dubstep industry because I come from another industry when he comes from a different industry himself, wub?
Also you deleted the wrong post, damn it.

He has a very valid point, and tbh I'll believe his figures/facts over yours any day, as they seem far more plausible.

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

This will be presumably be another 'fact' that you can't prove/back up?

f you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern.

Honestly, some of the people who have responded on this thread operate record labels. Not multi million dollar internationals with distribution through Universal, admittedly. But they still have record labels that release tunes that people buy and DJs play.

Stop sucking wind.

Look who's talking

Don't believe me, IDGAF? It doesn't matter if you believe and argument on a forum. What matters is what ACTUALLY happens in the future. I wonder what's going to happen after my success becomes apparent. People sucking up to me?

Remember, you can't really do shit about me being successful. In-fact you can just make yourself look like a fool about it and be the hate & fuel that drives me. Fanboyism isn't about supporting someone, it's about being obsessed about someone, even if it's a hate obsess. Seems like I've got tons of fanboys already.

C'mon wub, do you really think I'm shitting you? Or are you just sad that the industry isn't this "relaxed" "chill" place that you've dreamed of and there's actually a whole load of work involved.

The point of this thread was about sending mastered tracks to a label, and people are bitching because I said to release tracks yourself then look for a label. Had I said the opposite, you guys would be arguing MY point right now, I guarantee it.

But good luck with that attitude fellas. I'll buy your label before it fails, sparxxy old chap. Then maybe I'll help write your business plan.

Yes, I am out to line my pockets, and so are you. Don't fool yourself. don't be a white knight about the situation. If you had the chance to make a ton of money you would, and I'm sure you hope for the best for your label right? If you don't, why the FUCK would I sign to you?

I think this neatly sums up the flaw in your whole discussion - your utter failure to grasp the concept that some people might not be into making/releasing music for the same reasons that you are.

Maybe it's YOU who can't grasp that fact? I've only told people how to be successful, not why they should release music.

-T

[Sparxy]

You're forgetting that most people in this scene aren't in it to make money (OH MY FUCKING GOD, REVELATION, PEOPLE DO THINGS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT!?!?!? WHAT THE FUCKITY FLYING SHITFUCK!?!?!?!?!). They're in it because they fucking love the music! It's a community where lots of people know each other. Granted, many are making a living out of it, but they're living their dream. I think i'd be lying if i told you I wouldn't like to be in their position, but it's not something i'm striving for. I'm here because i'm passionate about bass, not because i'm trying to establish a career (although that would be nice). I work my 9-5. I come home and I make music. I fucking love it. Can you not grasp that!?!?!?!?

Furthermore you conveniently refuse to read Mad EP's post which has basically proven you to be a fool. He made plenty of valid points.

People are insulting you because you're talking to people with 10 years plus experience in the EDM scene (i've been around since I got into DnB in 2001) and you're acting like you know everything, when you clearly know nothing. It winds people up. You should expect a few insults really.

I think enough has been said in this thread now really, you've made yourself look very dumb and its clear you're not going to listen to anyone trying to talk some ounces of sense into you.

[Sparxy]

I feel sorry for you Toric. I really do. You are blind in a multitude of ways. It's amazing really.

[Toric]

You're forgetting that most people in this scene aren't in it to make money (OH MY FUCKING GOD, REVELATION, PEOPLE DO THINGS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT!?!?!? WHAT THE FUCKITY FLYING SHITFUCK!?!?!?!?!). They're in it because they fucking love the music! It's a community where lots of people know each other. Granted, many are making a living out of it, but they're living their dream. I think i'd be lying if i told you I wouldn't like to be in their position, but it's not something i'm striving for. I'm here because i'm passionate about bass, not because i'm trying to establish a career (although that would be nice). I work my 9-5. I come home and I make music. I fucking love it. Can you not grasp that!?!?!?!?

Furthermore you conveniently refuse to read Mad EP's post which has basically proven you to be a fool. He made plenty of valid points.

People are insulting you because you're talking to people with 10 years plus experience in the EDM scene (i've been around since I got into DnB in 2001) and you're acting like you know everything, when you clearly know nothing. It winds people up. You should expect a few insults really.

I think enough has been said in this thread now really, you've made yourself look very dumb and its clear you're not going to listen to anyone trying to talk some ounces of sense into you.

Okay, so why the fuck are you bashing me for trying to go out and be successful? It seems like YOU are the ones who can't grasp what I'm saying. It seems like you're getting pissed because I'm going to go out and do something and make music my career because it's my plan to do so.

U mad?
-T

[wub]

I wonder what's going to happen after my success becomes apparent.

Remember, you can't really do shit about me being successful. In-fact you can just make yourself look like a fool about it and be the hate & fuel that drives me. Fanboyism isn't about supporting someone, it's about being obsessed about someone, even if it's a hate obsess. Seems like I've got tons of fanboys already.

Check your ego mate, seriously.

Or are you just sad that the industry isn't this "relaxed" "chill" place that you've dreamed of and there's actually a whole load of work involved.

Again, you're failing to grasp the idea that not everyone is in 'the industry' for the same reasons you are.

The point of this thread was about sending mastered tracks to a label, and people are bitching because I said to release tracks yourself then look for a label. Had I said the opposite, you guys would be arguing MY point right now, I guarantee it.

Wah wah wah the whole world is against me no matter what I do.

Yes, I am out to line my pockets, and so are you. Don't fool yourself. don't be a white knight about the situation. If you had the chance to make a ton of money you would, and I'm sure you hope for the best for your label right? If you don't, why the FUCK would I sign to you?

I think this neatly sums up the flaw in your whole discussion - your utter failure to grasp the concept that some people might not be into making/releasing music for the same reasons that you are.

Maybe it's YOU who can't grasp that fact? I've only told people how to be successful, not why they should release music.

-T

Not all success is measured by wealth. You come across as a very materialistic person.

[Sparxy]

You're forgetting that most people in this scene aren't in it to make money (OH MY FUCKING GOD, REVELATION, PEOPLE DO THINGS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY IT!?!?!? WHAT THE FUCKITY FLYING SHITFUCK!?!?!?!?!). They're in it because they fucking love the music! It's a community where lots of people know each other. Granted, many are making a living out of it, but they're living their dream. I think i'd be lying if i told you I wouldn't like to be in their position, but it's not something i'm striving for. I'm here because i'm passionate about bass, not because i'm trying to establish a career (although that would be nice). I work my 9-5. I come home and I make music. I fucking love it. Can you not grasp that!?!?!?!?

Furthermore you conveniently refuse to read Mad EP's post which has basically proven you to be a fool. He made plenty of valid points.

People are insulting you because you're talking to people with 10 years plus experience in the EDM scene (i've been around since I got into DnB in 2001) and you're acting like you know everything, when you clearly know nothing. It winds people up. You should expect a few insults really.

I think enough has been said in this thread now really, you've made yourself look very dumb and its clear you're not going to listen to anyone trying to talk some ounces of sense into you.

Okay, so why the fuck are you bashing me for trying to go out and be successful? It seems like YOU are the ones who can't grasp what I'm saying. It seems like you're getting pissed because I'm going to go out and do something and make music my career because it's my plan to do so.

U mad?
-T

People are bashing you because you're giving advice to people on a topic you know nothing about. Not because of anything you'd done or what you plan to do. Although I do personally believe your motives and reasons for being here are questionable at best.

[skimpi]

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

Regardless I'm done arguing with people who don't want my advice. If you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern. Stop sucking wind.

-T

again, a classical pianist isnt an underground EDM producer, they are two entirely different things. tennis and football are both sports right, just cos you are good at football doesnt mean you can argue and think you know everything about tennis!

Yes, I am out to line my pockets, and so are you. Don't fool yourself. don't be a white knight about the situation. If you had the chance to make a ton of money you would, and I'm sure you hope for the best for your label right? If you don't, why the FUCK would I sign to you?

I have bills to pay, and like I said, a genetic illness to take care of which means my kids are PROBABLY going to have the same illness. Mainstream success or not, I want to support myself with music, so I've done the necessary research to make money at it. It's called marketing, and if you don't know how to do that then you're not a label I'd sign with.

Getting an artist radio play is a FEEBLE accomplishment for a label.

-T

if you have to pay bills then get a job! now im not saying you dont have one, i dont know what you do to earn money, but im sure as hell it aint from makin tunes, and if you think you can make a living out of making tunes then thats great it CAN be done, but dont base your life on it, and dont have any other plans cos more than likely it wont happen, but if you still like to make music even though you wont be living off it, then you can still do that in your spare time, and you never know maybe someone will like it and want to release it. but i think that once you find out you cant live off it, you will stop cos thats all you see to want out of the music, money.

i would rather have my tunes played on rinse and radio 1, on the respected shows, as i know that people listening will be lovers of my type of music. also then that means people that i respect would be liking and playing my music, and that means more to me than any money! id rather benji b, or pearson sound or someone like my music and play it out, than get a shitty release on itunes that no one will ever see. i dont care about selling my music, i would just be great for other people to like my work.

[Toric]

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

Regardless I'm done arguing with people who don't want my advice. If you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern. Stop sucking wind.

-T

again, a classical pianist isnt an underground EDM producer, they are two entirely different things. tennis and football are both sports right, just cos you are good at football doesnt mean you can argue and think you know everything about tennis!

Read thread, somebody used their "classical piano" booking experience as an argument, which was a dumb thing to do because he's bullshitting with those figures.

-T

[Sparxy]

I think you'd be better off in the pop scene mate! Cher Lloyd is looking for a remixer apparently, maybe give Simon Cowell a call

[Toric]

I think you'd be better off in the pop scene mate! Cher Lloyd is looking for a remixer apparently, maybe give Simon Cowell a call

Like it or not, this is the new pop scene.

[wub]

Are you just in this for the money?

[Toric]

Are you just in this for the money?

Yes, because I want to do music as a career.

Is there something wrong with that?

I have no problem telling people that.

[Mad_EP]

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

Regardless I'm done arguing with people who don't want my advice. If you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern. Stop sucking wind.

-T

again, a classical pianist isnt an underground EDM producer, they are two entirely different things. tennis and football are both sports right, just cos you are good at football doesnt mean you can argue and think you know everything about tennis!

Read thread, somebody used their "classical piano" booking experience as an argument, which was a dumb thing to do because he's bullshitting with those figures.

-T

First of all - I wasn't using my experience as a classical booking agent as my only experience... and in fact, if you actually READ my post, you would know that I specifically used that experience as an example of why scenes are different and why you couldn't use your experience in metal and comparisons to mainstream charts as a means to gauge how things should be done in EDM. I also never said anything about piano.

(not that it is important - but my figures in classical booking weren't bullshit either - I was the Midwest & West coast booking agent for Columbia Artists Management, one of the top 3 classical agencies in the world, and I was the direct contact for over 150 orchestras - so not only do I know what we were charging, but I also know what kind of budgets many orchestras & performing arts centres have. On the other hand - if you had even a fraction of the 'upper-level' experience you claim to have - you'd know those figures are easily attainable without breaking a sweat).

However - my more direct experience is that I have been releasing in EDM for 7 years on Ad Noiseam, Hymen, etc toured rather extensively in both clubs and festivals alike... plus have relationships with plenty of other artists and labels. Oh yeah - and I used to work for a company where I liased directly with and licensed the catalogs of labels like Ninja Tune, Stones Throw, Sunday's Best, Tru Thoughts, Kompakt, Soul Jazz, etc etc - so I DO have an idea about the size of a lot of these labels, what kind of staff they have, and so on...


For the record - I really don't care what your motivations are for being in the game. I don't think it is bad to want to make money, but I do think it is rather naive (not unlike the rest of your ideas). Anyone who has been in the business for longer than 5 minutes knows that even with the best marketing, top management, solid publishing, undeniable talent, etc etc - it still takes a lot of luck. And even if luck comes ones way - it isn't often for very long. So while yes, it is important to have a game plan, do understand that it still might not lead to shit... which is why if making money is important to you, there are many easier and more sure-fire ways to make some cash.

[wub]

Are you just in this for the money?

Yes, because I want to do music as a career.

Is there something wrong with that?

Not at all, but your reasons for being in Dubstep (for the money) are different from the reasons that nearly everyone else in this thread is into it.



Personally speaking, I don't measure success by financial reward.

[Sparxy]

I think you'd be better off in the pop scene mate! Cher Lloyd is looking for a remixer apparently, maybe give Simon Cowell a call

Like it or not, this is the new pop scene.

You have NO IDEA how wrong you are.

[Toric]

Furthermore, my Aunt is a classical pianist. Yet another industry I know plenty about, as I am ALSO a classical pianist. I haven't hired myself out, but I do play classical piano and I do know a ton of people in THAT industry as well.

Regardless I'm done arguing with people who don't want my advice. If you're left in the dust because you can't get together some business sense, then that sucks for you and it's non of my concern. Stop sucking wind.

-T

again, a classical pianist isnt an underground EDM producer, they are two entirely different things. tennis and football are both sports right, just cos you are good at football doesnt mean you can argue and think you know everything about tennis!

Read thread, somebody used their "classical piano" booking experience as an argument, which was a dumb thing to do because he's bullshitting with those figures.

-T

First of all - I wasn't using my experience as a classical booking agent as my only experience... and in fact, if you actually READ my post, you would know that I specifically used that experience as an example of why scenes are different and why you couldn't use your experience in metal and comparisons to mainstream charts as a means to gauge how things should be done in EDM. I also never said anything about piano.

(not that it is important - but my figures in classical booking weren't bullshit either - I was the Midwest & West coast booking agent for Columbia Artists Management, one of the top 3 classical agencies in the world, and I was the direct contact for over 150 orchestras - so not only do I know what we were charging, but I also know what kind of budgets many orchestras & performing arts centres have. On the other hand - if you had even a fraction of the 'upper-level' experience you claim to have - you'd know those figures are easily attainable without breaking a sweat).

However - my more direct experience is that I have been releasing in EDM for 7 years on Ad Noiseam, Hymen, etc toured rather extensively in both clubs and festivals alike... plus have relationships with plenty of other artists and labels. Oh yeah - and I used to work for a company where I liased directly with and licensed the catalogs of labels like Ninja Tune, Stones Throw, Sunday's Best, Tru Thoughts, Kompakt, Soul Jazz, etc etc - so I DO have an idea about the size of a lot of these labels, what kind of staff they have, and so on...


For the record - I really don't care what your motivations are for being in the game. I don't think it is bad to want to make money, but I do think it is rather naive (not unlike the rest of your ideas). Anyone who has been in the business for longer than 5 minutes knows that even with the best marketing, top management, solid publishing, undeniable talent, etc etc - it still takes a lot of luck. And even if luck comes ones way - it isn't often for very long. So while yes, it is important to have a game plan, do understand that it still might not lead to shit... which is why if making money is important to you, there are many easier and more sure-fire ways to make some cash.

Luck is a poor mans word for "I didn't do enough"

I think you'd be better off in the pop scene mate! Cher Lloyd is looking for a remixer apparently, maybe give Simon Cowell a call

Like it or not, this is the new pop scene.

You have NO IDEA how wrong you are. I'm laughing at you now

How am I wrong?

-T