outboard analog gear worth it? or in the box?

[drake89]

Now i don't have much cash ATM but I've got a new job and will be getting paid in the next couple of weeks. I've got everything I want for electronic music right now, except for a legit copy of massive and ableton orchestra. I'll be saving for those, BUT would it be worth getting stuff like a tapedeck, patchbay, compressor, verb unit for "coloring" or should I just do it all in the box for now? I would be running it through my numark m6 mixer that has USB I/O and some kind of 24bit DAC (I think). I just have a USB mic for now (AT2020). Should I just save my money for a decent DAC?

What would you do? I can spend/save $100/wk

[Mad_EP]

Some stuff can be fun to have outboard, but in reality, these days you usually kind find much better quality for cheaper ITB.

For instance - You can probably spend a couple hundred on a compressor that might add some character and be fun for sound design... but if you are looking for clean *high quality* compression, you're most likely not gonna find much under a 500-1k.

For EQ - definitely stay in the box. Cheap EQ isn't fun, it is a headache... and you won't find anything good for under a grand.

Verb & delay... Some of the Lexicon units are alright. Then again, usually you can find much better ITB for a fraction of the price. If you were to splash on outboard verb/delay... I would save up and try to find a good spring reverb (digital simulations never really nailed it) or a tape delay.

Synths - you can find a lot of decent synths on Ebay for decent prices. Obviously some are gonna be extortionate (303s, 808s, 909s, etc)... but a bunch of Yamaha DX series can usually be found for ok prices. Sure - everyone loves the DX7 so that one goes for more, but some of the less popular models might be worth a go.. take the time to really learn to program them and come up with cool patches.

DAC is always a good & sensible buy - and there are a lot of options for decent prices.

Don't discount buying cheap lil circuit bent noise makers or random drums, etc ... nor do you have to be a hardcore instrumentalist to get some mileage out of some simple instruments.

Microphones are what have been interesting me more than most lately... And again - yes, some really good and clean ones are gonna cost an arm & a leg... but some of the cheap ones are perfect for other tasks. For instance - an SM57 is about a hundred bones and is great for drums (including percussive found sounds around the home), rap vocals, and other stuff. I've been keeping an eye on Ebay for some old vintage Russian mics that will probably sound harsh and horrible.. but sometimes that is the sound you are looking for.


Whew... that was more than I intended to write. Hope it helps.

[drake89]

thanks for the advice. i reckon ill stick to buying cheap keyboards for circuit bending and maybe a tape player. but ill be savin my bones for a DAC and orchestra

[hasezwei]

sorry for the noob question but what exactly is a DAC? yes, googling told me it's a digital-to-analog converter but what would you use it for in a studio?

@OP: i've been thinking about outboard gear too lately and i think a tape recorder would be nice as a cheap saturation/compression solution.

another idea might be guitar fx pedals for resampling purposes, play a loop through the pedals and back into the pc, twist the knobs, record. it might be slower and more complicated than just loading up a vst-effect, but sometimes that's actually more fun.

as Mad EP said, mics/recorders are a good investion. i love my zoom h1 and i'm looking forward to getting a proper mic for it. then you can just go to friends' places and record their instruments or have late night field recording sessions or just spend a day hitting stuff with sticks, sample your girlfriend and all that good stuff

[drake89]

a DAC is something like an MBOX. It lets you record high quality analog signals in and out of your computer. They usually 1/4" and XLR in and out with a headphone monitor. The MBOX 3 mini that I'm looking at though only has XLR in, not out.

[hasezwei]

a DAC is something like an MBOX. It lets you record high quality analog signals in and out of your computer. They usually 1/4" and XLR in and out with a headphone monitor. The MBOX 3 mini that I'm looking at though only has XLR in, not out.

so it's just an interface/soundcard?

[Shum]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to ... rter#Audio

Most modern audio signals are stored in digital form (for example MP3s and CDs) and in order to be heard through speakers they must be converted into an analog signal. DACs are therefore found in CD players, digital music players, and PC sound cards.

Specialist standalone DACs can also be found in high-end hi-fi systems. These normally take the digital output of a compatible CD player or dedicated transport (which is basically a CD player with no internal DAC) and convert the signal into an analog line-level output that can then be fed into an amplifier to drive speakers.

Similar digital-to-analog converters can be found in digital speakers such as USB speakers, and in sound cards.

[wormcode]

I've got everything I want for electronic music right now, except for a legit copy of massive and ableton orchestra.

Do that first. Most people are buying outboard these days as a luxury or hobby.

If you're going to be adding any kind of outboard gear, then yes the first thing you should do is replace that Numark. Especially if you plan on buying some analogue or any kind of decent outboard processors. You might also want to look into a whole new audio interface too depending on what you have now.

When people talk about tape saturation, they aren't talking about cassettes, but actual tape like 1/4" reels. This is getting more expensive every day. About 30 minutes of good tape will set you back $100-150 easy, and it doesn't last long. So that's 1 week of saved money gone.

Cassettes are nice and I love them and use them, but it's the metal tapes that are good. They aren't so expensive, but not what I would call the same level as real tape.

If I were you I would look into a UAD which offers all this and more for much less money. You can run several UAD plugins on 1 card and they have the best analogue emulation there is. Right now there is a deal where if you buy the Solo Flexi card you get a $500 voucher towards the plugins, which can you get 1 very nice plugin or 2 to 3 simpler ones.

[drake89]

I don't know about all the UAD stuff but I know there's an old reel to reel tape player in the radio room of my university that they might give me.

[wormcode]

I think UAD and related stuff is the final nail in the coffin for analogue processors... or maybe not quite, there's still a couple of nails yet. But the more they advance, and new models come out, the more of a collecting hobby outboard is becoming. My opinion anyway, I'm one of the analogue/hardware collectors, but the lines are blurring more and more. The new UAD Ampex tape unit is very very nice, and in the long run is much cheaper than actual tape. I would prefer the real thing of course, but the tape is getting hard to find and takes up a lot of space and money.

[nowaysj]

Ahh this thread is sacrilege!

I got an Orban 622b eq for well under a grand, and I really enjoy it. Could really use a low and high pass, but whatevs.

There is a lot more to it than sound peoples of this thread. More than luxury. Touching things with your hand... always seems like the difference between pornography/masturbation and actual intercourse. Ultimately, same result (hopefully) but a very experience, to say the least. Its true, I spend a lot of time in the box, but when I do come out... it is much better. I don't have a complete setup out of the box, namely don't have sequencing/timing totally locked and no quality capture device, which is kinda the rub with hardware setups.

What I'm really trying to say is that Maschine is an excellent hybrid between the primacy of touch, and the extensibility of software.

Sounds like you're starting out, right? If so in the box for sure. Good enough computer, good audio io, good monitors, good daw. End of really, right there.

[AxeD]

I would definitely go with a synth or a groovebox/drumcomputer.

I'd kill for an old Roland drummachine

[benjam]

I would definitely go with a synth or a groovebox/drumcomputer.

I'd kill for an old Roland drummachine

+1 on the synth. Ive got a roland sh-01 ( ok ok gaia lol) its not the most exciting synth ever but theres something about that hands on control. Its like I connect more with what my hands are doing and its really made a difference. I swear in the last few weeks Ive learned so much more about synthesis. Staring at a screen all the time just feels a bit uninspiring sometimes I think.

[wormcode]

There is a lot more to it than sound peoples of this thread. More than luxury. Touching things with your hand... always seems like the difference between pornography/masturbation and actual intercourse.

Haha absolutely agree with you. That's one of the other nails I mentioned. MIDI controllers are nice, but each dedicated piece of kit has its own "personality" and unique feel to it.

[dublerium]

most stuff here's out of my price range but I'm going to buy some cheap stuff when I get the time, tape recorders, kids pianos, shitty microphones etc. I personally really like lo fi sounds so this'll all add to character in my tunes

[cloud capture]

good thread, glad to see people are moving away from programming their computers and playing music on their instruments. I find lots of cheap analog goodies on craigslist.

[Mad_EP]

One of the (very few) perks to teaching for the county.. is that I can borrow instruments for a year at a time.

Within the next couple weeks I should be able to pick up a double bass... I just hope I have enough room in the studio (while keeping enough floor space open for my cello students!)

[slothrop]

There is a lot more to it than sound peoples of this thread. More than luxury. Touching things with your hand... always seems like the difference between pornography/masturbation and actual intercourse.

Haha absolutely agree with you. That's one of the other nails I mentioned. MIDI controllers are nice, but each dedicated piece of kit has its own "personality" and unique feel to it.

This is why the classic tunes by Skream, Digital Mystikz, Benga etc are a bit rubbish. If only they'd had analogue compressors to fondle they might have made some decent tunes...

[slothrop]

Non facetious response -

It should be pretty bloody obvious nowadays that you can get a great sounding mix in the box. For every one person who goes on about how much they love their fifty grand analogue setup and how ITB mixes sound flat and boring and lifeless there are about ten who are just getting on with the job and making music and sounding good.

Nowaysj is bang on that hardware is about more than sound though - I find just from having one h/w synth that different bits of your brain fire up when you're sat there with a keyboard and a bunch of knobs than when you've got a computer and a mouse and a VST. I'd imagine that working with a whole network of little synths and samplers and loopers and effects and mixers is even more so - I've seen live noise sets that you theoretically could reproduce on a computer, but practically you wouldn't.

I find the obsession with 'individuality' and 'personality' a bit weird though. Fundamentally it's a bunch of electronics, not your girlfriend. (Cue "why a synth is better than a girlfriend" jokes.) And fundamentally imo it should be you that puts the personality and individuality into your music, not the vagueries of a 70's japanese electronic component manufacturing process. As for uniqueness, I don't see why it's so interesting that a piece of kit is 'unique' in the sense of the engineering tolerances of the components meaning that it doesn't quite sound exactly the same as another example of the same model of synth. We're not talking about "this synth is unique - it sometimes randomly makes mad psychedelic noises when you hold down that key and twist that knob at the same time" more "this synth is unique, the envelope decay is a couple of miliseconds slower than it is on that synth that's the same model."

[wormcode]

No, I didn't mean it like that. I meant pretty much what has already been said (and reiterated by you):

I find just from having one h/w synth that different bits of your brain fire up when you're sat there with a keyboard and a bunch of knobs than when you've got a computer and a mouse and a VST.

I didn't mean personality as in the actual sound really, but for example I make different noises on my virus than I do on albino. Technically they both do the same things (and sound similar enough), but the hands on approach and limitation of a hardware unit and its menus makes you go about things in a different way.

Don't know where you came up with the Skream/Benga, DMZ thing though. Wasn't thinking that at all.
Though I have seen some of Mala's new setup and it's much nicer, and his tunes are better than ever.
Joking though, obviously it's because he's Mala.