gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

My pleasure!

Finding that balance is a *huge* part of my job. It has to be said that accurate monitoring makes it a lot easier, but the fascination for me is finding just the right settings that make it all go *ping* into place. I'm going to stop here cos I have fallen in love with my Summit all over again lately, and I could warble on at some length...

[nowaysj]

The only one preventing you from warbling is you...

[Dataloss]

The only one preventing you from warbling is you...

warble away wise mac!

[ChadDub]

Hey, I was just doing a beat, and I tried something different. I turned everything down to where I'm peaking at just -10, and then I boosted some lows and some highs by 1 dB on the master and took out .5 db of some mids. I bounced it out and then normalized it. And it sounds pretty tight.

My question is, is should I avoid normalization? I remember reading someone saying that normalizing is bad for some reason, where I don't see any issues.

[macc]

Normalisation (forgive my ye olde English spelling ) is essentially pointless - it's not *bad* per se, at least in the real world, rather than overly anal discussions on internet message boards

It's just a specifically scaled gain change, to all intents and purposes. Nothing special about it...

As for warbling... I might do when I get a bit longer. Crazy busy here (hence fewer contributions of late, sorry about that).

@ DSF

[macc]

One other thing;

Hey, I was just doing a beat, and I tried something different. I turned everything down to where I'm peaking at just -10, and then I boosted some lows and some highs by 1 dB on the master and took out .5 db of some mids. I bounced it out and then normalized it. And it sounds pretty tight.

Try to do the same thing but more specific/targetted across each individual track. Adding 'boobs and bums' across the master is often a quick way to make something more appealing, but if you can get the same thing happening for each element in the mix before you reach the master, you'll be in even better shape.

For example; your drums might benefit from a low boost from (random number) 200Hz downwards, whereas the bass sounds better with an 80Hz shelf. Using (again, random number) one shelf at 150Hz on the master isn't really getting either in the best possible way, and could be adding mud in the bass, while not getting the full fatness in the drums. Meh. Solution: Use one shelf on each, as appropriate.

Doing things across the master can be a handy and valid way of checking out what's up with your mix. But - IMO/IME - once you've used that tool to figure it out, turn it off, get back into the mix and sort it out there. You'll be glad you did

[stompzi]

Elephant you can right click/drag the input to drop the output by the same amount. Similar for Fabfilter Pro-L I think.

Alt+Left Click in Pro-L. Very useful.

[DoWork]

This thread is filled with delicious knowledge.

[Electric_Head]

This thread is filled with delicious knowledge.

The cup is proverbially overflowing.

[Perfecture]

I know it's all relative blah blah blah , but I have my master peaking at -12db. Is this considered too low for a mastering engineer to work with? I mostly see people saying that -6 is where they have it peaking or around there. But Is there anything wrong with having it peaking at -12db?

Any guidence is much appreciated.

[skimpi]

i dunno if i would say its TOO low i dont really know if there is too low. but peaking at -12db, isnt the average gonna be alot lower than that then?, if i were you id just grab all the faders and drag them up, it aint gonna do no harm is it.

[Perfecture]

i dunno if i would say its TOO low i dont really know if there is too low. but peaking at -12db, isnt the average gonna be alot lower than that then?, if i were you id just grab all the faders and drag them up, it aint gonna do no harm is it.

I would turn the faders up more on the buses etc but they are already at the maximum they can be (if I push them anymore they will be in the red and they are all sitting nicely atm gain structure wise) plus If I turn the master up anymore like to -11 it starts going in the red. The reason the master fader is peaking at -12 is cause a lot of my sounds are not limited to shit and I have pulled them down low on the buses and just boosted volume and added punch using a transient shaper,compression, envelopers and eqing (drums peaking at -11, Sub at -14, Synths at -15 etc). Its just the way I have made everything really, it just sort of happened the way it has. I am just wanting to know if -12 is ok to have the master peaking at, if so I will carry on how I am, but if its too low I want to know now so that I can correct my levels.

Thanks for the advice though man

[Ongelegen]

You are obviously not peaking at -12dB or you would be able to turn up everything by 12dB without clipping. Maybe you're confusing having your master fader at -12dB with peaking at -12dB?

[Perfecture]

You are obviously not peaking at -12dB or you would be able to turn up everything by 12dB without clipping. Maybe you're confusing having our master fader at -12dB with peaking at -12dB?

your right mate, so this means that I am probably peaking about -2 I think. The fader is at -12, but if I turn it up anymore I am in the red. Does this mean my output volume is pretty much hitting zero?
In logic just above the fader it says how much db you are away from peaking. So I am guessing that is what I should be looking at to see what I am peaking at?

[Ongelegen]

Yeah you're pretty much out of headroom then. Basically you have your individual channels waaaay to hot, thats why you have your master fader so low and can't bring it up. It's best to keep your master at 0, and mix by adjusting the levels of your elements closest to the source as possible. Yeah that's what you need to look at for your peaks. I suggest reading this whole thread again.

[Perfecture]

Yeah you're pretty much out of headroom then. Basically you have your individual channels waaaay to hot, thats why you have your master fader so low and can't bring it up. It's best to keep your master at 0, and mix by adjusting the levels of your elements closest to the source as possible. Yeah that's what you need to look at for your peaks. I suggest reading this whole thread again.

I feel like such a fool, i cant believe this whole time I thought I was peaking at -12.
FUCKKKKK

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

[skimpi]

yeah, i mean i dunno how it works in the digital domain, but if you have your master pulled down to -12 then that means that when at 0 where it should be, you will be heavliy clipping. i dunno how the headroom works like but if you think you have everything at the levels they are, and the master at 0 then you have no headroom and you are in the red, so really when pulling the master fader down to -12, are you gaining headroom then, or just lowering the volume of everything that has no headroom?

id pull everything down together and the move the master to 0

[Perfecture]

yeah, i mean i dunno how it works in the digital domain, but if you have your master pulled down to -12 then that means that when at 0 where it should be, you will be heavliy clipping. i dunno how the headroom works like but if you think you have everything at the levels they are, and the master at 0 then you have no headroom and you are in the red, so really when pulling the master fader down to -12, are you gaining headroom then, or just lowering the volume of everything that has no headroom?

id pull everything down together and the move the master to 0

Basically I didn't realise that the small db reader above the faders in logic shows what the volume/signal is peaking at. I just thought It was where the faders sat that represented the volume. Such a noob mistake . I think I will set the master to 0 and the individual channels can be at 0 too, but I will use the buses (I route everything to buses) to gain structure the seprate groups of instruments. Should only take about 5 mins to tweak all this so luckily it's not a big job.

Is it a common thing to have the master at 0db and then tweak everything around that?

[skimpi]

yeah, i mean i dunno how it works in the digital domain, but if you have your master pulled down to -12 then that means that when at 0 where it should be, you will be heavliy clipping. i dunno how the headroom works like but if you think you have everything at the levels they are, and the master at 0 then you have no headroom and you are in the red, so really when pulling the master fader down to -12, are you gaining headroom then, or just lowering the volume of everything that has no headroom?

id pull everything down together and the move the master to 0

Basically I didn't realise that the small db reader above the faders in logic shows what the volume/signal is peaking at. I just thought It was where the faders sat that represented the volume. Such a noob mistake . I think I will set the master to 0 and the individual channels can be at 0 too, but I will use the buses (I route everything to buses) to gain structure the seprate groups of instruments. Should only take about 5 mins to tweak all this so luckily it's not a big job.

Is it a common thing to have the master at 0db and then tweak everything around that?

well make sure that you lower the volume of your synth and samples then, as if your samples are normalized to 0db, or your synth has a high output, then having your fader at 0 will mean that the levels on each channel will be pretty high up, maybe even in the red, so then when you add them all up it will be way over the red on the master.

and yeah it is common practice i think, cos really all the master fader should be used for is altering the overall volume, but you need it to be at 0db in the first place to make sure that when everything is added up, its at a reasonable volume, and has sufficient headroom. once it is you can change the overall volume all you want, but i prefer to keep the master and 0 and then bounce out, and then change the volume of the bounced file.

[Perfecture]

yeah, i mean i dunno how it works in the digital domain, but if you have your master pulled down to -12 then that means that when at 0 where it should be, you will be heavliy clipping. i dunno how the headroom works like but if you think you have everything at the levels they are, and the master at 0 then you have no headroom and you are in the red, so really when pulling the master fader down to -12, are you gaining headroom then, or just lowering the volume of everything that has no headroom?

id pull everything down together and the move the master to 0

well make sure that you lower the volume of your synth and samples then, as if your samples are normalized to 0db, or your synth has a high output, then having your fader at 0 will mean that the levels on each channel will be pretty high up, maybe even in the red, so then when you add them all up it will be way over the red on the master.

and yeah it is common practice i think, cos really all the master fader should be used for is altering the overall volume, but you need it to be at 0db in the first place to make sure that when everything is added up, its at a reasonable volume, and has sufficient headroom. once it is you can change the overall volume all you want, but i prefer to keep the master and 0 and then bounce out, and then change the volume of the bounced file.

Yeah man your way seems the most logical, I just got home and started sorting all my levels out...it sounds SOO much better now, I can't believe I had everything hitting nearly zero. major Facepalm. Thanks so much for your help man, I really appreciate it.