gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

Is it a common thing to have the master at 0db and then tweak everything around that?

If only there was a thread discussing that

[Perfecture]

Is it a common thing to have the master at 0db and then tweak everything around that?

If only there was a thread discussing that

Have I caused you to Facepalm Macc?
I am happy to announce I now mix everything with the master at 0db.

[topmo3]

You've must have been over this again and again but please bear me.

I've never paid attention to the mixdowns on my tracks, resulting my tracks sounding shit. Every time I render the tune it'll peak something from 5-11 db so it clips horribly

Until now I've been lowering the volumes of each tracks so that it wouldn't peak too much, but of course this isn't the way to do it cause the tunes end up really quiet. I don't know anything about leaving headroom/EQing or any of that. I'm sure this thread holds answers to all my questions but come on, it's 45 pages and from what I've read it's all too advanced soundguy talk that I just don't understand.

Could someone kindly point me to the right direction on the basics of mixing & mastering? I also accept links to video tutorials or blogs or anything if you know any, I only found tutorials on DAWs and plugins that I don't have. Only videos I found about mixing on Reaper were about recorded live instruments, not electronic music produced on VSTi's, and that doesn't really cater my needs. Thank you!

[nnny]

These might be of use to you mate;

Incredible EQ Tutorial
http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thin ... q-tutorial

Just in case you want, they have an awesome tutorial on compression too!
http://dnbscene.com/article/1474-compre ... n-tutorial

[macc]

Until now I've been lowering the volumes of each tracks so that it wouldn't peak too much, but of course this isn't the way to do it cause the tunes end up really quiet.

You're not doing anything wrong. Avoiding clipping is good.

Learning to maximise the impact and power of your track without it clipping is an important part of the art of mixing.

I don't know anything about leaving headroom/EQing or any of that. I'm sure this thread holds answers to all my questions but come on, it's 45 pages and from what I've read it's all too advanced soundguy talk that I just don't understand.

No it isn't, don't be soft

I've used a LOT of food analogies and done my absolute best to make the concepts - which you seem to understand already - as understandable as possible. It's highly untechnical really, this thread.

Could someone kindly point me to the right direction on the basics of mixing & mastering?

You're in the right thread but refusing to read it *shrug*

It's (mostly) all here...

[therapist]

Yes, Macc could you please go back over all your posts in this thread and summarise them for us so we don't have to go through a torturous 20 minutes reading the thread ourselves.

[Ldizzy]

^^HAHA

topmo, heres the deal,

take a pad, take a pen, take an hour, scroll thru and note...

people are so uninvolved in their own lives it aint even funny

[laurend]

You have to bounce/render/mix using the 32 bit float data format for audio, to avoid any clipping.

[222sucram]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

[skimpi]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

try saturating your sub with overdrive, distortion etc. to add higher harmonics to that bass sound, so that helps to cut through and be the audible part on that hi-fi. do this through sends too so that your sub can stay clean, and the saturation will be on a separate bus so you have more control.

[222sucram]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

try saturating your sub with overdrive, distortion etc. to add higher harmonics to that bass sound, so that helps to cut through and be the audible part on that hi-fi. do this through sends too so that your sub can stay clean, and the saturation will be on a separate bus so you have more control.

Its not the sound i want to change though. like i said about the KM track its just a sine wave at around the same frequency as my bass line. im just wondering if -6db is too low?

[mikeyp]

Until now I've been lowering the volumes of each tracks so that it wouldn't peak too much, but of course this isn't the way to do it cause the tunes end up really quiet

um, anyone, am I dumb or is this statement false? I didn't see anyone who replied to this comment on it and I feel like that's the biggest problem he's having..

am I missing something?

[skimpi]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

try saturating your sub with overdrive, distortion etc. to add higher harmonics to that bass sound, so that helps to cut through and be the audible part on that hi-fi. do this through sends too so that your sub can stay clean, and the saturation will be on a separate bus so you have more control.

Its not the sound i want to change though. like i said about the KM track its just a sine wave at around the same frequency as my bass line. im just wondering if -6db is too low?

yeah but like i dont know if KM saturate their sub so that it shows through on not so bassy systems better. not distorting so much so that it sounds like cack, just to warm the sound up and add higher harmonics just slightly higher, in reach of the systems capabilities. you said yourself tho, on headphones your sounds maybe even louder than theirs does, so if yours and theirs are both just sine waves, how come yours is louder on headphones but almost inaudible on the other system, surely it should be the same? also with levels, i have no clue, i dont work with set levels, its according to how loud everything else is, and then if its limited after that will change anyway, just work with it, referencing with the KM track, and try and get it to have the same impact as that track, and then check it on a different system, if its too loud on that, or too quiet, go back and alter. do you wanna make the tune to sound good on a hi-fi, or to bang in the dance? it might not sound as good on the hi-fi, but on a big system it may hit harder.

[macc]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

It's a combination of your hi-fi and the room in which you're listening. Welcome to the world of acoustics. Either/both your hi fi won't play that low and/or that frequency is cancelling at your listening position. Practice your mixing and learn your system, how things translate between different systems (ie, make good use of your headphones), then practice some more.

It's impossible to say that the peak level is too high as we don't know where everything else is; if everything else is peaking at -60dB then yes, -6dB is probably too loud Having said that, if it's eaking at -6 or so you'll start to run out of headroom pretty soon.

With all due respect, more processing as suggested above won't fix the problem. This is a monitoring/acoustics issue, and throwing processing at it is missing the point.

[222sucram]

I'm a bit confused about what level my sub bass should be. im only using E2 which is about 43- 45 Hz and some 808 bass sounds and it peaks at -6.7db. When i play the track on my Hi-fi the sub is barely audible and lacks power. At first i thought that it was an octave too low but when i play just after by KM the sub bass on that is at about 43Hz yet it doesnt lack power. But when i listen to it on my headphones the sub bass on my track sounds about the same if, not louder than the KM track. Any help?

It's a combination of your hi-fi and the room in which you're listening. Welcome to the world of acoustics. Either/both your hi fi won't play that low and/or that frequency is cancelling at your listening position. Practice your mixing and learn your system, how things translate between different systems (ie, make good use of your headphones), then practice some more.

It's impossible to say that the peak level is too high as we don't know where everything else is; if everything else is peaking at -60dB then yes, -6dB is probably too loud Having said that, if it's eaking at -6 or so you'll start to run out of headroom pretty soon.

With all due respect, more processing as suggested above won't fix the problem. This is a monitoring/acoustics issue, and throwing processing at it is missing the point.

I decided to restart the mix. Over the past week i have just been working on mixdowns reading this thread and other tutorials to improve my mixing technique, and i starting to realise how important the mixdown is. I'll just keep beavering away

[RatRaceProducing]

wow i just had a good long read through that chaps and all i can say is thanks for your time. I can get a reasonable mix down to be fair but far from professional and with some tips from here and some INFORMATION from here it has cleared up a few things for me and showed me the light! expect some hella tight tunes coming up .

Just to add my bit, i have been playing with tiny tiny sidechain on smaller elements in the mix so you can make them clear each other. Now im not saying hard sidechain your hats off your kick so they disappear when the kick hits, im say very soft sidechaining just to close off some of the sounds and making them stay in there own space. Using the peak controller in FL is very effective and you dont get that "compressed" sound so much as when you run it straight through a compressor.

Also chaps on the compression side. Anyone else using or used endorphin? its a freebie but it seems to work quite nicely for mono and stereo applications. I will admit it does seem to be quite harsh but works well for drums. It a bit less "technical" as well its all sliders rather than ratios etc so makes for a good starting point.

Let me know how you get on if you give it a try,

Got a few new tracks in my sig if you get a minuite, most aren't quite finished but a well on there way

!peace! Lewis

[symmetricalsounds]

Until now I've been lowering the volumes of each tracks so that it wouldn't peak too much, but of course this isn't the way to do it cause the tunes end up really quiet

um, anyone, am I dumb or is this statement false? I didn't see anyone who replied to this comment on it and I feel like that's the biggest problem he's having..

am I missing something?

quiet compared to what?

have you turned everything down in your DAW so you have different elements balancing better and not clipping and then it sounds quiet? well turn up the volume on your interface/speakers.

[macc]

^ Innit

The answers to all that stuff are in the thread.

Worry about power clarity and impact at the mix stage and loudness post-mastering won't be a problem.

[Triphosphate]

Hey Macc, just thought you should know I've read this thread like 6 times since I found it. You've totally shaped my production techniques for the better. Thanks a million for taking the time to make all these analogies, I've even used the 'compressor is a guy on the couch watching tv' one to help my classmates. You're an asset to this forum. I'm also pointing as many people as I can to this thread as possible

[macc]

Aye, that was an inspired one that TV thing. Used it to explain a compressor to my lady the other day... I'm sure she was fascinated

Seriously though, glad to help. It's just a pain in the arse when you dunno WTF is going on, innit, so I like to help!