Different methods of Massive Wobbling

[M1asma]

Now, I'm sure there are bits and pieces of my question scattered about in the forum, but I would like to consolidate for not only myself, but for everyone, different methods of wobbling, and maybe a few tips and tricks while using massive.

I am relatively new to massive, but quickly grew tired of using the performer, as there aren't many variations I can try before everything sounds the same.

I use FL Studio, and automation is ridiculously tedious, is there any other methods to get different sounds from the wobble?

I know you can use envelopes to get different sounds, but never really learned how, and youtube can only give me so much.

Advise/ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[blinx]

NI Massive Threads http://www.dubstepforum.com/the-ni-mass ... 52001.html

Learn ADSR Envelopes 101 then route Env,LFOs,STEPs,PERFs to jsut about ANY paramter in massive to create new and diverse wobbles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer#ADSR_envelope

ADSR Evelopes Explained:
When an acoustic musical instrument produces sound, the loudness and spectral content of the sound change over time in ways that vary from instrument to instrument. The "attack" and "decay" of a sound have a great effect on the instrument's sonic character.[23] Sound synthesis techniques often employ an envelope generator that controls a sound's parameters at any point in its duration. Most often this is an "ADSR" (Attack Decay Sustain Release) envelope, which may be applied to overall amplitude control, filter frequency, etc. The envelope may be a discrete circuit or module, or implemented in software. The contour of an ADSR envelope is specified using four parameters:

Attack time is the time taken for initial run-up of level from nil to peak, beginning when the key is first pressed.
Decay time is the time taken for the subsequent run down from the attack level to the designated sustain level.
Sustain level is the level during the main sequence of the sound's duration, until the key is released.
Release time is the time taken for the level to decay from the sustain level to zero after the key is released.

An early implementation of ADSR can be found on the polyphonic 1938 Hammond Novachord (which predates the first Moog synthesizer by over 25 years). A seven-position rotary knob set ADS for all 72 notes; a footpedal controlled release.[24] The ADSR was specified by Vladimir Ussachevsky (then head of the Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music Center) in 1965 while suggesting improvements for Bob Moog's pioneering work on synthesizers.[25]

A common variation of the ADSR on some synthesizers, such as the Korg MS-20, was ADSHR (attack, decay, sustain, hold, release). By adding a "hold" parameter, the system allowed notes to be held at the sustain level for a fixed length of time before decaying. The General Instruments AY-3-8912 sound chip included a hold time parameter only; the sustain level was not programmable. Another common variation in the same vein is the AHDSR (attack, hold, decay, sustain, release) envelope, in which the "hold" parameter controls how long the envelope stays at full volume before entering the decay phase. Multiple attack, decay and release settings may be found on more sophisticated models.

Certain synthesizers also allow for a "delay" parameter, which would come before the "attack". Modern synthesizers like the Dave Smith Instruments Prophet '08 have DADSR (delay, attack, decay, sustain, release) envelopes. The delay setting determines how long there is silence after a note is hit, before the attack is heard. Some software synthesizers such as Image-Line's 3xOSC (included for free with their DAW FL Studio) have DAHDSR (delay, attack, hold, decay, sustain, release) envelopes.

[Skrew]

I never create wobbles in Massive with the LFO. Idk if it's just me, but I make it sound horrible. I get a cleaner wobble by automating the Envelope.

Only times I ever touch an LFO is in Albino, Sytrus, and Nexus(non-dubstep projects).

[blinx]

yeah i use synced lfos for general sketching of wobbly ideas (like 1/8ths just to get me started) then abuse envelopes and non synced lfos to add teh real voice/phrasing to the bassline.

[Skrew]

I never can get the lfo to wobble the entire sound. I like doing Envelopes too because it makes the wobbles sort of growl or build up if you know what I mean. Like each time, it sounds just a bit different.

At least my settings do that. Working on my first dub track.

[Triphosphate]

Fantastic blinx.

I'll contribute a couple of tricks I enjoy playing with.

1) macros macros macros! You can easily get 50 sounds out of a single massive patch if you take advantage of macros. Here's a couple of examples:
A) put a 1/4 Lfo on filter 1, copy it with a 1/2 Lfo to filter 2. Adding a macro to the crossfader and you have a quick switch between Lfo speeds.
B) Make 3 macros set to alter the wave tables of your 3 oscillators for several new sounds; alternately, make 1 macro that tweaks 2 wavetables down and one up.
C) leave a Lfo on rate mode, tweak it till you find a sweet spot and assign a macro to raise the Lfo rate to another faster sweet spot. Make sure the Lfo is set to reset and record hand-made tweaking of the macro for loose polyrythmic wobbles.
D) make a massive patch with 2 osc.s in midrange, make a sine for the bass at -36 or so. Macro the amp on the sinebass and automate to taste for a easy way to make a separately controlled sub.
E) make some modulations (phase, ring, position, etc.) and make a macro to turn them on/up that is also macroed to the amp of an Lfo/performer/stepper. For an easy way to pump the harmonic content for wobbles. Even link the same macroto turn up white noise or wetness on fx and inserts.
F) make a macro that alters the pitch of oscillator 1 by .10 and oscillator 2 by -.10 and automate the macro for instant 'detuned bigness'
G) use massive to make uplifters/downlifters by automating the pitch of all oscillators, assign the same macro to add white noise, sweep your filter cutoff, raise wetness on reverb, as many effects as you can to create a dynamic sweep. Massive aint just for wobbles you know.

2) try doubling your wobble filter:
A) make a massive patch as normal and make the wobble filter inside of massive.
B) multiband split your wobble and add more effects for harmonic content. The harmonic content added is now subject to the internal filter of massive. So your sound should be pretty dynamic at this point.
c) using your third party filter of choice, automate a 'wobble' that matches the pattern of your internal massive wobble and stack it on top to cut into the harmonic content you added in step b.

Did this at a bar from my phone, sorry for any typos.

[breakitdown]

Now, I'm sure there are bits and pieces of my question scattered about in the forum, but I would like to consolidate for not only myself, but for everyone, different methods of wobbling, and maybe a few tips and tricks while using massive.

I am relatively new to massive, but quickly grew tired of using the performer, as there aren't many variations I can try before everything sounds the same.

I use FL Studio, and automation is ridiculously tedious, is there any other methods to get different sounds from the wobble?

I know you can use envelopes to get different sounds, but never really learned how, and youtube can only give me so much.

Advise/ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

For the most control probably automation is best (but as you say tedious) - a way round this would be to record your automation and just tweak out stuff live with a controller for a few mins and then copy / paste the good bits...

Your options really are Performer, LFO and Stepper... i guess you could get something nice and experimental using the looping parts of ADSR in the ENV's too.

I'd also experiment with the different filter types and and also might be worth trying automating the Inserts aswell as the filters if you place them strategically within the routing flow.

Probably not what you are after - but hope it helps!

Steve

[M1asma]

For the most control probably automation is best (but as you say tedious) - a way round this would be to record your automation and just tweak out stuff live with a controller for a few mins and then copy / paste the good bits...

This is the route that I am probably going to go, you all have great input, and I'm going to sift through it all, and report back with my findings.

[BaseBass]

What I like to do, is put LFO's (synced and unsynced) on more than just the basic cutoff, envelopes etc. Putting an LFO on lets say the Dimension Expander's "size", increasing and descreasing the size trough LFO gives an interesting effect. It makes the synth sound like its being sucked back into the "room" with each wobble. I also put LFO's on the amount of phasing, or the panning position, which also causes the sound to shrink and expand with each wobble. You can basicly LFO or automate just about anything, so just go crazy. You can LFO the dry/wet of a parabolic shaper or bitcrusher. On the bandwidth, feedback, white noise. Well you get the point. I just like my synths to feel alive and moving, even tho it's the same wobble pattern repeating over 4 bars for instance. The sound constantly changes.

[M1asma]

What I like to do, is put LFO's (synced and unsynced) on more than just the basic cutoff, envelopes etc. Putting an LFO on lets say the Dimension Expander's "size", increasing and descreasing the size trough LFO gives an interesting effect. It makes the synth sound like its being sucked back into the "room" with each wobble. I also put LFO's on the amount of phasing, or the panning position, which also causes the sound to shrink and expand with each wobble. You can basicly LFO or automate just about anything, so just go crazy. You can LFO the dry/wet of a parabolic shaper or bitcrusher. On the bandwidth, feedback, white noise. Well you get the point. I just like my synths to feel alive and moving, even tho it's the same wobble pattern repeating over 4 bars for instance. The sound constantly changes.

Awesome knowledge broham. Thanks much, will be applying this to a current WIP.

[Acidhedz]

I just make my bass then apply different levels of LFO to it, or use other fx like glitch, amp mod filter, etc to get whatever sound I want to play around with. I have also gotten interesting results just using a clip of myself taking and/or making noises then adding filters to it.

I haven't tried the tip yet, but I found a little clip of Rusko talking about how he arranged songs, and he renders 3 or 4 unmixed versions of the same track then cuts them together for variations through the song.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with Massive, but I prefer to keep things simple and cheap when it comes to sound production. I learn more about how to make sounds I want if I have to build them from scratch instead of relying on a synth so many other people are using. I get good results just using 3 or 4 different synths in Acid with the same MIDI track. The synths didn't cost me anything and I can come up with just about anything given enough time messing around.

It's the mix down part that throws me.

[Nizmo]

Try here for some Massive tutorials http://www.youtube.com/NizmoTutorials

[Towany]

Try here for some Massive tutorials http://www.youtube.com/NizmoTutorials

BIg up Nizmo, I learned a good part of Massive watching your tuts!

[Dystinkt]

Did this at a bar from my phone, sorry for any typos.

Must have been a shitty bar