Is the moneyshot thread too inaccessible for new producers?

[paradigm_x]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem.

Kind of missing the point a lil bit tho , its not that specific thread, its the general lack of initiative in research. edit, and by research i also include actually fucking trying to do stuff.

I know youve done the hard work.

I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

And i completely agree, its infinitely better to sit down and play with your stuff and make some music rather than asking; how duz i make skrillex bass or how many snare layers shoudl i use. Figure it out yourself ffs and you might just make something interesting and original (like you have done).

[cloak and dagger]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem. I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

So to summarize, you haven't read the thread but you know exactly what's in it and feel qualified to comment on the quality of the posts. Got it.

Try using your brain on this one. Of course I've read the thread, I just haven't gone through every single page and actually read it in depth. I can't believe I even have to explain this. If I was wrong about the content and the quality of that thread, then WHY WOULD THIS THREAD EVEN EXIST?

[cloak and dagger]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem.

Kind of missing the point a lil bit tho , its not that specific thread, its the general lack of initiative in research. edit, and by research i also include actually fucking trying to do stuff.

I know youve done the hard work.

I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

And i completely agree, its infinitely better to sit down and play with your stuff and make some music rather than asking; how duz i make skrillex bass or how many snare layers shoudl i use. Figure it out yourself ffs and you might just make something interesting and original (like you have done).

I don't disagree with your rants in this thread at all, in fact I feel the exact same way. I just thought it wasn't really relevant to the point of the thread, so when I wrote my post I wasn't really targeting your posts but rather the general sentiment from a lot of posters in this thread. I was just pointing out that you can't blame people for not reading something that's barely legible, and that there's a difference between laziness and efficiency; if I want to know why my drums are clipping, reading something about mastering is a good option, probably the best one...but having to dig through an unstructured mess just isn't worth it to a lot of people when you can ask a clear question and get a clear answer.

Again I agree with you, I just feel that making it easier for everyone will be really helpful, and the FL Crackateers will either a) fall in love with it, put some work in, and get better, or b) get frustrated at the next hurdle they come to and give up. I dunno, from everything I read on this board I think it's just easier for me than others to ignore those people for some reason.

Anyway, didn't mean to make you feel singled out or anything...your posts weren't really in mind when I posted.

[Jas0n]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem. I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

So to summarize, you haven't read the thread but you know exactly what's in it and feel qualified to comment on the quality of the posts. Got it.

Try using your brain on this one. Of course I've read the thread, I just haven't gone through every single page and actually read it in depth. I can't believe I even have to explain this. If I was wrong about the content and the quality of that thread, then WHY WOULD THIS THREAD EVEN EXIST?

Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[cloak and dagger]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem. I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

So to summarize, you haven't read the thread but you know exactly what's in it and feel qualified to comment on the quality of the posts. Got it.

Try using your brain on this one. Of course I've read the thread, I just haven't gone through every single page and actually read it in depth. I can't believe I even have to explain this. If I was wrong about the content and the quality of that thread, then WHY WOULD THIS THREAD EVEN EXIST?

Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

So you being on cocaine is your excuse for not thinking for half a second and realizing that it's more likely that I've read parts of the thread but implied that I hadn't read the whole thing than me not reading any of it, and yet somehow accurately describing it? Or were you just looking for an internet fight? It doesn't take a genius to work out what that meant, unless you disagree with my and everyone else's assessment of the thread and feel that it is well-structured and the large majority of posts in there are informational and relevant? In that case, your argument isn't with me and you should tell wub that you don't see why the thread needs condensing in the first place.

Also, please don't call me out for telling you to use your brain with "of course I'm using my brain, how else I be able to breathe and use motor functions?!"

[Jas0n]

People seem to be confusing "taking the time to do your research" and "read through a 45-page thread mostly consisting of random comments that won't be helpful in the slightest." The book analogy isn't correct at all, as a book is written by a single author and has STRUCTURE, which that thread doesn't. A better analogy would be a book without paragraph breaks and reviews of the book making up the majority of it.


Seriously, condensing it isn't about "earning your stripes" or "putting in effort as a producer." I've never read that thread, and if it was 45 pages of information, I would, but the length isn't the problem. I've just got better things to do than trawl through loads of forum banter to get to information (e.g. making music). I can't blame someone if they're new to producing and feel the same, especially if they feel that their question is more specific and it's more efficient to ask the forum (note the distinction between laziness and efficiency).

So to summarize, you haven't read the thread but you know exactly what's in it and feel qualified to comment on the quality of the posts. Got it.

Try using your brain on this one. Of course I've read the thread, I just haven't gone through every single page and actually read it in depth. I can't believe I even have to explain this. If I was wrong about the content and the quality of that thread, then WHY WOULD THIS THREAD EVEN EXIST?

Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

So you being on cocaine is your excuse for not thinking for half a second and realizing that it's more likely that I've read parts of the thread but implied that I hadn't read the whole thing than me not reading any of it, and yet somehow accurately describing it? Or were you just looking for an internet fight? It doesn't take a genius to work out what that meant, unless you disagree with my and everyone else's assessment of the thread and feel that it is well-structured and the large majority of posts in there are informational and relevant? In that case, your argument isn't with me and you should tell wub that you don't see why the thread needs condensing in the first place.

Also, please don't call me out for telling you to use your brain with "of course I'm using my brain, how else I be able to breathe and use motor functions?!"

I've always thought that the highest compliment a person could pay another person is to take them seriously when they speak. I paid you that compliment and now you stomp your feet like a petulant child because what I should have done is assume that you meant exactly the opposite of what you said - in once instance, presumably, but not in any other?

I do happen to like the structure of the thread, and the format. I already said that. (What I mean by "I already said that" is, I actually said I liked the thread the way it was, as opposed to having said the opposite and assumed you'd assume I meant something which directly contradicts what I actually did say.)

I mean ... sure, I can keep up an internet fight if that's what you're gunning for, especially if one of the rules is that we get to say one thing, then directly contradict ourselves, and then accuse the other guy of some kind of dipshittery for not "using our brains" or whatever.

[paradigm_x]

I don't disagree with your rants in this thread at all, in fact I feel the exact same way. I just thought it wasn't really relevant to the point of the thread, so when I wrote my post I wasn't really targeting your posts but rather the general sentiment from a lot of posters in this thread. I was just pointing out that you can't blame people for not reading something that's barely legible, and that there's a difference between laziness and efficiency; if I want to know why my drums are clipping, reading something about mastering is a good option, probably the best one...but having to dig through an unstructured mess just isn't worth it to a lot of people when you can ask a clear question and get a clear answer.

Again I agree with you, I just feel that making it easier for everyone will be really helpful, and the FL Crackateers will either a) fall in love with it, put some work in, and get better, or b) get frustrated at the next hurdle they come to and give up. I dunno, from everything I read on this board I think it's just easier for me than others to ignore those people for some reason.

Anyway, didn't mean to make you feel singled out or anything...your posts weren't really in mind when I posted.

not at all. By posting those rants i fully expected to be singled out but it actually hasn't happened.

but comparing reading that slightly difficult/meandering thread to (for example) trying to figure out an 80s workstation without a manual and the internet is ... what gets my goat really. No one can be arsed with even basic effort.

It was the right thread at the right time (or wrong thread maybe!), to vent some of the things that have been annoying me for quite some time, and it does seem to have sparked some discussion, which is always good.

Cheers

[wub]

I made some good points last page that everyone has ignored

[cloak and dagger]

Ok, so to you it's more likely that I never read the thread and yet somehow knew what was in it. All I needed to know; there's not really much point in arguing common sense with someone who doesn't use any. I'll let you attack someone else and then call them a child by responding to you

[Jas0n]

Ok, so to you it's more likely that I never read the thread and yet somehow knew what was in it. All I needed to know; there's not really much point in arguing common sense with someone who doesn't use any. I'll let you attack someone else and then call them a child by responding to you

You didn't accurately describe the thread, either. Even if you had, you could very well have done so by making a few assumptions based on broader experience with the internet and forums in general. So no, it isn't reasonable to assume you'd read the thread based on a sloppy, ham-fisted, incorrect description of its contents - especially when you said you hadn't read it.

Almost edited my post to say that, but I figured... what's the point with this guy?

[cloak and dagger]

I made some good points last page that everyone has ignored

I thought they were good ideas. Honestly, it depends how much effort you want to put into it; I think it would be enough to just copy/paste the questions and answers in it, and if some of the questions are related to ones before it, then you can put them together into one section. If there's a common thread, you can expand the section and make a table of contents that lists the specific questions/topics in each section. Obviously you could do more if you were motivated to.

[cloak and dagger]

Ok, so to you it's more likely that I never read the thread and yet somehow knew what was in it. All I needed to know; there's not really much point in arguing common sense with someone who doesn't use any. I'll let you attack someone else and then call them a child by responding to you

You didn't accurately describe the thread, either. Even if you had, you could very well have done so by making a few assumptions based on broader experience with the internet and forums in general. So no, it isn't reasonable to assume you'd read the thread based on a sloppy, ham-fisted, incorrect description of its contents - especially when you said you hadn't read it.

Almost edited my post to say that, but I figured... what's the point with this guy?

yet you edited this post to say that

So yeah, you tell me what the point is! Because I don't really know, to be honest.

[deadly_habit]

protip: if you can't be assed looking through a long thread you can quickly skim through a page in it for keywords by pressing ctrl+f

[blinx]

haha using the find function is genious lol search for macc and keep hitting next, instant lazy entitled answer to gain structure.

I thought half the fun of the moneyshot thread was getting to hear macc talk back to "producers" about the real meat and bones of mixing. Having the dialogue, even the dry boring/torlly stuff, is part of the education in my eyes. But im done caring since i already read the thread twice and have not had to look back since.... its gold if you take the time to educate yourself rather than rant or bicker.

[Jas0n]

Ok, so to you it's more likely that I never read the thread and yet somehow knew what was in it. All I needed to know; there's not really much point in arguing common sense with someone who doesn't use any. I'll let you attack someone else and then call them a child by responding to you

You didn't accurately describe the thread, either. Even if you had, you could very well have done so by making a few assumptions based on broader experience with the internet and forums in general. So no, it isn't reasonable to assume you'd read the thread based on a sloppy, ham-fisted, incorrect description of its contents - especially when you said you hadn't read it.

Almost edited my post to say that, but I figured... what's the point with this guy?

yet you edited this post to say that

So yeah, you tell me what the point is! Because I don't really know, to be honest.

No, I didn't. Regardless, the point is that you're talking out of your ass here and I suspect that you know it, but lack the fortitude to cop to it. I don't expect and will not ask for an apology from you on account of your nonsense, but the least you could do is have another look at the glaring contradiction I highlighted and say candidly, without snark or snideness, which of the two statements you made is patently wrong.

If it is the first, I submit that this could have been avoided had you put an inkling of thought into what you typed. If it is the second, we are right back to the bit about you just talking out of your ass.

Get it yet?

[oWLinDaylight]

Im not really sure what the arguing is about but I feel like this relates to the original topic. I started this wiki to help condense some of the information in the production bible. It seems like a wiki would be the easiest way for a new producer to find information instead of linking through threads. And if there's any vocab in the information that they don't understand they can just follow the link to the page for that word. I think this would solve the problems that people are bringing up. Check it out and let me know what you think.
http://dsfproduction.educatewiki.com

[cloak and dagger]

Ok, so to you it's more likely that I never read the thread and yet somehow knew what was in it. All I needed to know; there's not really much point in arguing common sense with someone who doesn't use any. I'll let you attack someone else and then call them a child by responding to you

You didn't accurately describe the thread, either. Even if you had, you could very well have done so by making a few assumptions based on broader experience with the internet and forums in general. So no, it isn't reasonable to assume you'd read the thread based on a sloppy, ham-fisted, incorrect description of its contents - especially when you said you hadn't read it.

Almost edited my post to say that, but I figured... what's the point with this guy?

yet you edited this post to say that

So yeah, you tell me what the point is! Because I don't really know, to be honest.

No, I didn't. Regardless, the point is that you're talking out of your ass here and I suspect that you know it, but lack the fortitude to cop to it. I don't expect and will not ask for an apology from you on account of your nonsense, but the least you could do is have another look at the glaring contradiction I highlighted and say candidly, without snark or snideness, which of the two statements you made is patently wrong.

If it is the first, I submit that this could have been avoided had you put an inkling of thought into what you typed. If it is the second, we are right back to the bit about you just talking out of your ass.

Get it yet?

I get it now! You misunderstanding my post + me correcting you = GLARING CONTRADICTIONS!!

And yeah you edited your post, unless a bunch of that stuff in the middle of your post magically appeared after I read it, because I definitely read it before the edit. Don't worry though, I'm not going to demand an apology

I still don't get what your point is, though. You want me to apologize because I clarified an earlier statement after you acted like a jerk? Really? Is that what all this is about?

[cloak and dagger]

Im not really sure what the arguing is about

I DON'T KNOW EITHER (I really don't)

[kiene]

Im not really sure what the arguing is about but I feel like this relates to the original topic. I started this wiki to help condense some of the information in the production bible. It seems like a wiki would be the easiest way for a new producer to find information instead of linking through threads. And if there's any vocab in the information that they don't understand they can just follow the link to the page for that word. I think this would solve the problems that people are bringing up. Check it out and let me know what you think.
http://dsfproduction.educatewiki.com

oh shit

this is win

[deadly_habit]

Im not really sure what the arguing is about

I DON'T KNOW EITHER (I really don't)