A look at piracy and this forum's outlook on it.

[seckle]

there's a vast difference in torrenting lady gaga from record companies that strangle the music industry; and torrenting from a small label/producer and potentially making it so that they can no longer release/produce the music that you love

[imagina]

some of the biggest pirates in industry:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200912 ... 7234.shtml
even if you buy music you never really know how much of the money ends up in artists hands -do you?
you should ask your favorite producer-you'd be surprised !!

when the dubstep scene was small
music wasnt made for money
so nobody was 'stealing'

its only when dubstep got big -the money showed up -and the greed walked in
lets not forget for example RinseFM used to be a pirate radio station
and for those of you who still remember barefiles.com
- well they both helped dubstep grow a lot!

im not trying to say you shouldn't buy music at all-but there are different levels of piracy.personally i think its much worse for a record company not to pay artists
than normal pple just listening to downloaded music...peace

[garethom]

even if you buy music you never really know how much of the money ends up in artists hands -do you?
you should ask your favorite producer-you'd be surprised !!

No, but I definitely know how much ends up in the artists hands from a pirated release.

[TMSV]

even if you buy music you never really know how much of the money ends up in artists hands -do you?
you should ask your favorite producer-you'd be surprised !!

No, but I definitely know how much ends up in the artists hands from a pirated release.

this.

not paying because labels may possibly screw over artists is not going to improve the artists monetary situation, is it

[AllNightDayDream]

I think there is a happy medium. Money is especially tight for me right now, so I don't buy music, nor do I pirate it, but I do keep a healthy list of YouTube favorites and listen to them while I'm browsing. I was one of those kids who came to the forum listening to excision and bassnectar, and I would probably still be listening to them if it weren't for all the YouTube links around here. Whenever I had a job, however, it didn't matter how much I was trying to save, any trip to the city meant blowing at least 50 dollars at the record store. Part of that is guilt for having pirated for so many years. But looking back at how my taste has evolved over the years, I also have to appreciate the lengths it took me to, the sonic boundaries it led me across. Most of the music I own now is stuff I've pirated before, as well. Ultimately, it comes down to consumer's habits and there's not much you can do about it short of censoring the Internet. It needs to be embraced as a double edged sword, IMO. I think new technology or business practices will arise to help translate all that online traffic into revenue. Its not as black and white as some people make it out to be, and I'm glad we can discuss it civilly here.

[collige]

One could argue about the morality of pirating music and the role of music in our capitalistic society, but that doesn't change the fact that it's completely impossible to stop and has become an increasingly acceptable part of the younger generation. Because of this, I think label and artists should be more focused on being more forward thinking with the way they approach putting their music in the world. There are always going to be people unwilling to pay for the music, but they are still part of an artists' fanbase and I think they should be treated as such.

A note on Spotfiy: it would be a decent idea if their business model was something was actually financially viable for artists.
Unfortunately, it's really just a big ripoff as Spotify still pays a microscopic amount of money per stream regardless or how many people decide to pay for subscription. Compare this to how traditional online platforms work where they make all their money through a percentage of sales. As an artist, I would rather have my tunes pirated than put on a platform like Spotify where I'm essentially being taken advantage of.

[collige]

even if you buy music you never really know how much of the money ends up in artists hands -do you?
you should ask your favorite producer-you'd be surprised !!

No, but I definitely know how much ends up in the artists hands from a pirated release.

this.

not paying because labels may possibly screw over artists is not going to improve the artists monetary situation, is it

This is true, but no one wants to hand their money over to an asshole. Given all the information, I would pirate a tune then pay for it knowing that none of the money would go to the artist (not saying that this is always the case but it certainly does happen

[seckle]

if you don't contribute back to the community and sound you claim to love profusely on the internet, in my mind, you have no right to comment on its health or demise. your opinion is worthless. the underground music scene was built on underground support, friends supporting friends. businesses supporting businesses. not entitlement, and endless self-interest driven justifications about what is stealing, what is copyright and what is intellectual property.

many producers in this sound have kids, wives, mortgage payments. many don't even care about the financial aspects. both perspectives make up the core of this community. there's some that rely utterly on music to support them financially. others have 2 or even 3 jobs to maintain it. in 2011, in my mind this is more and more a question of karma, and do you want a circle of good karma coming back to you? are you only interested in filling more of your hard drives off the back of someone else's blood, sweat and tears?

don't be that guy. open your wallet, and support.

[collige]

if you don't contribute back to the community and sound you claim to love profusely on the internet, in my mind, you have no right to comment on its health or demise. your opinion is worthless. the underground music scene was built on underground support, friends supporting friends. businesses supporting businesses. not entitlement, and endless self-interest driven justifications about what is stealing, what is copyright and what is intellectual property.

many producers in this sound have kids, wives, mortgage payments. many don't even care about the financial aspects. both perspectives make up the core of this community. there's some that rely utterly on music to support them financially. others have 2 or even 3 jobs to maintain it. in 2011, in my mind this is more and more a question of karma, and do you want a circle of good karma coming back to you? are you only interested in filling more of your hard drives off the back of someone else's blood, sweat and tears?

don't be that guy. open your wallet, and support.

If you're replying to me, please don't make assumptions about my financial investment in the scene and the music.

[pandabear]

I grew up buying the music I heard on the radio. I remember buying cassette tapes then upgrading the same music to CD later. At 15, I am one of those who had 2 or 3 CD holders that fit 200 in them. Back then they were $15 for an album at sale price and $3.99 for a single and used ones weren't available yet. Allowance, birthday money, report card money (cos I got $10 in every A), all went to music with no regrets. I also worked at a music store for a few years where I got my money and gave most of my money to. Most got stolen when I moved out and roomed with people so I'm slowly digging for them at used records stores/garage sales/swap meets.

I am guilty of dl'ing YT [official] music VIDEOS and artsy/homemade VIDEOS. This is for the time I like to stimulate my eyes when I go to long train/plane/bus trips, but most if not all of these I already have a physical copy. Apart from that, I am happy with podcasts/mixes/free tunes if I can't afford them. I hear what OP says but none fit any in my life/lifestyle and if I ever come close to being as poor as he is, I know that Rinse/Sub/Dubstep FM to name a couple will provide to uplift my soul. If you are a DJ who steals music and plays/gets paid at shows, here's a big FUCK YOU.

**Maybe something to do with the physicality of it that's why I don't see the point of downloading. All these blaming to how easily accessible it is mumbo-jumbo, are all excuses to steal.**

[D3ATHSTEP]

if you don't contribute back to the community and sound you claim to love profusely on the internet, in my mind, you have no right to comment on its health or demise. your opinion is worthless. the underground music scene was built on underground support, friends supporting friends. businesses supporting businesses. not entitlement, and endless self-interest driven justifications about what is stealing, what is copyright and what is intellectual property.

many producers in this sound have kids, wives, mortgage payments. many don't even care about the financial aspects. both perspectives make up the core of this community. there's some that rely utterly on music to support them financially. others have 2 or even 3 jobs to maintain it. in 2011, in my mind this is more and more a question of karma, and do you want a circle of good karma coming back to you? are you only interested in filling more of your hard drives off the back of someone else's blood, sweat and tears?

don't be that guy. open your wallet, and support.

Well I don't believe in karma, because there's absolutely zero evidence to prove its existence and bad things happen to good people that didn't deserve it every day, but that's a different discussion

[wizeguy]

@D3ATHSTEP: what are trying to do here, justify stealing from someone who doesn't have much money and provide you with decent music?

[seckle]

if you don't contribute back to the community and sound you claim to love profusely on the internet, in my mind, you have no right to comment on its health or demise. your opinion is worthless. the underground music scene was built on underground support, friends supporting friends. businesses supporting businesses. not entitlement, and endless self-interest driven justifications about what is stealing, what is copyright and what is intellectual property.

many producers in this sound have kids, wives, mortgage payments. many don't even care about the financial aspects. both perspectives make up the core of this community. there's some that rely utterly on music to support them financially. others have 2 or even 3 jobs to maintain it. in 2011, in my mind this is more and more a question of karma, and do you want a circle of good karma coming back to you? are you only interested in filling more of your hard drives off the back of someone else's blood, sweat and tears?

don't be that guy. open your wallet, and support.

Well I don't believe in karma, because there's absolutely zero evidence to prove its existence and bad things happen to good people that didn't deserve it every day, but that's a different discussion

So basically, its all about your hard drives and fuck everyone else? be honest....

[brasco]

why are we still entertaining this???

[wizeguy]

why are we still entertaining this???

Yea Fuck this guy

[D3ATHSTEP]

why are we still entertaining this???

Yea Fuck this guy

Woah, fuck YOU, my friend. You've got some balls to come into what was otherwise a surprisingly civil discussion and then just straight up say fuck me. Go be an elitist snob somewhere else, because this discussion is for people with open minds who don't think they know everything. Gotta love internet tough guys.

[D3ATHSTEP]

if you don't contribute back to the community and sound you claim to love profusely on the internet, in my mind, you have no right to comment on its health or demise. your opinion is worthless. the underground music scene was built on underground support, friends supporting friends. businesses supporting businesses. not entitlement, and endless self-interest driven justifications about what is stealing, what is copyright and what is intellectual property.

many producers in this sound have kids, wives, mortgage payments. many don't even care about the financial aspects. both perspectives make up the core of this community. there's some that rely utterly on music to support them financially. others have 2 or even 3 jobs to maintain it. in 2011, in my mind this is more and more a question of karma, and do you want a circle of good karma coming back to you? are you only interested in filling more of your hard drives off the back of someone else's blood, sweat and tears?

don't be that guy. open your wallet, and support.

Well I don't believe in karma, because there's absolutely zero evidence to prove its existence and bad things happen to good people that didn't deserve it every day, but that's a different discussion

So basically, its all about your hard drives and fuck everyone else? be honest....

Being honest: it's not about my hard drives and it's not about "fuck everyone else", it's a look at the state of the current business model(or lack thereof) for music and the pros and cons it contains; as well as a look at why some people on this forum are extremely hypocritical. Some people are losing sight of the subject at hand and resorting to personal insults/blind accusations. Not surprising, really. Damn near impossible to have a decent chat about such a controversial subject.

[brasco]

why are we still entertaining this???

Yea Fuck this guy

Woah, fuck YOU, my friend. You've got some balls to come into what was otherwise a surprisingly civil discussion and then just straight up say fuck me. Go be an elitist snob somewhere else, because this discussion is for people with open minds who don't think they know everything. Gotta love internet tough guys.

you have bullshit views about piracy, don't make this thread out to be anything bigger than a bunch of people telling you it is wrong, and you persistently ignoring them.

it is getting boring now.

"lets give a voice to illegally downloading music on the front page of a music forum" fuck offff

seckle can we lock this now

[D3ATHSTEP]

why are we still entertaining this???

Yea Fuck this guy

Woah, fuck YOU, my friend. You've got some balls to come into what was otherwise a surprisingly civil discussion and then just straight up say fuck me. Go be an elitist snob somewhere else, because this discussion is for people with open minds who don't think they know everything. Gotta love internet tough guys.

you have bullshit views about piracy, don't make this thread out to be anything bigger than a bunch of people telling you it is wrong, and you persistently ignoring them.

it is getting boring now.

"lets give a voice to illegally downloading music on the front page of a music forum" fuck offff

seckle can we lock this now

Boohoo, someone has different views than I do, therefore they're inferior and not worth having a voice for. Why don't you grab a tissue and then grow up. If this gets locked than that's even further proof of the hypocrisy that goes on here, as there's a "voice for illegally downloading music" in a STICKIED THREAD on this forum as I've stated many times in this thread so far. I haven't ignored anyone, I've responded to everyone as politely and with the msot amount of respect possible. I simply have different opinions than they have. The point of this thread isn't to prove one side right and the other wrong, it's simply to discuss why youtube links are considered all right to post on this forum, but any other form of piracy isn't.

[Sexual_Chocolate]

is it just me, or am i getting the feeling this thread is all about some kids inability to pay for music?