Eqing Bass and Kick

[Autonation]

Ok so here goes,

I've heard some people are cutting out the frequencys of their sub between 100-200KHz and i suppose then leaving the 200khz range up still with sub? So heres what i do in the intro i leave the kick with all the frequencys it has already,
I genrally put some more in actually boosting at 100khz by about +4db or less and i never go over +6db (sounds like a muddy mess if you do) and this also depends on what sort of sounds are in the intro.

But when the drop phrase starts I ushally highpass the kick at around 60khz (or as much as i can before it starts to lose its punch) then use some saturation and pump it up at around 120khz by 4-5db actually theres ton of stuff you can do
to make it sound punchy and try to take it up the frequency range. The point being that you can make the bass still very phat and also it kinda keeps the kick out of the range of the sub woofer (within reason) and i tend to lowpass my sub bass at around 100khz also and seperate the mid and high bass subtractively then eq them so they arent clashing( I use the eq so i dont get any phase cancelation). This seems to work quite well.

So I'm wondering what does everyone else do, also what do you use to take out the muddy frequencys between 100-200khz filter or eq etc and does what im doing here sound ok or am I making a big mistake?
I used most of this technique in my song below. So feedback please!

[syrup]

It's not kHz, jus Hz what you're talking about

I tend to make a nice eq curve on my kicks, generally like -6db on 50hz to 0 on 100 and do the same thing on sub, though vice versa and eq-ing out frequences from around 80-90 hz above.. Basically just making place for kicks to sit within the mix



Boosting kicks by a few dB around 100-150 Hz is cool too
Alternatively, you can arrange your track so the sub and kick aren't playing at the same time, and you can have it as punchy as you will

[Autonation]

Alternatively, you can arrange your track so the sub and kick aren't playing at the same time, and you can have it as punchy as you will

Yes that is a good technique and one that is used by 16bit (listen to 16bit-funhouse) or so ive heard and is also used in many different genres mostly hard dance and trance(and many others) also it works very well rythmically and is a technique i use alot before the drop it creates alot of artistic (also rythmic) expression. But what im really getting at is when they are mixed together. what would you do by using eq, filter and mixing to prevent a clash between these frequency?. I understand there is alot of different answers to this question but i would like to hear different techniques associated with the style of the genre (from all of you!) i would also like to know what plugins you use to get rid of these frequencys(Ie what eq's filters you think are the best).

Peace,
Autonation

[Autonation]

It's not kHz, jus Hz what you're talking about

I tend to make a nice eq curve on my kicks, generally like -6db on 50hz to 0 on 100 and do the same thing on sub, though vice versa and eq-ing out frequences from around 80-90 hz above.. Basically just making place for kicks to sit within the mix

Thanks man what eq plugin do you use to achieve this? but as the sub operates inbetween 40 to 110 hz (sonic range for subbass) 40hz and below is the same frequency for an earthquake or so they told me at uni.
is it just the way that works better on the sound floor? also why eq both the sub and the kick down in the same range, i guess i will have to try it but it doesnt make to much sence to me and also eqing out frequencys above 80-90hz 100hz is where the kick gets its punch. I find when i use a highpass filter at around 60hz any more then that tends to kill the punch maybe there is somthing im missing from what your saying.

Thanks so much for your feedback btw

[syrup]

Well i use apple's AUGraphicEQ plugin that came with the computer, works good.

From my experience, the pressure comes from 40-60hz range, the frequencies from round 100hz are just making it kind of more audible, but they don't add to the weightimess of the sub so i tend to roll that off.

The punch of the kick on the other hand is a bit hard to define. Some kicks (808) sound bang being in the subbass range, some have that little snap at 100hzish range which power comes from. It's all down to the samples really. I like making kicks less bassy, but with more power at tge 90-150 range say, so they cut through the mix nicely and don't interfere too much with the sub. I find if i make em bassier, it muddies my tunes even at the parts with no sub playing, dunno. I just play with EQ until sub+kicks sounds nice.

You can also automate HIpass filter to cut the lows when you have sub playing, but not to cut when they're playing on therlir own or hipass them and layer the same sample but lowpassed everywhere when need (without sub)


Alternatively, you can try sidechaining. I never used it, but from what i read, it basically links two tracks and if there's a signal on one track, and a signal of same range comes from the other track, it "ducks" the signal from the first one making room for the other one. That's how i understood it works



Hope i helped

[Jas0n]

Yeah the thing with sub bass is you don't have a whole lot of range to work with which can really be honestly called sub bass. The oscillator you use to make your sub, if played at 200 Hz, isn't sub at all - it is just a simple sine wave.

Some kicks tend to sit down where you want that sine wave to be moving - in the neighborhood of 60 Hz, say - and some don't. Most generally it is a matter of artistic preference as to whether or not you'd want that, but if you do, you'll need to resolve any conflicts where sounds are competing for space, or you'll be making mud.

And basically your options are to raise your kicks out of that deep sub range, or make room for them laterally by ducking the sub via sidechaining, or by programming your sub syncopated with the kick.

[Ongelegen]

It is pointless to eq/filter a pure sine sub as it doesn't have any harmonics.

[Jas0n]

It is pointless to eq/filter a pure sine sub as it doesn't have any harmonics.

Do you know what a non sequitur is?

[Ongelegen]

After a quick google I do now, but I don't know what it has to do with this thread except for you nitpicking on my quote.

[Jas0n]

After a quick google I do now, but I don't know what it has to do with this thread except for you nitpicking on my quote.

But surely you're aware that filtering and EQing has its uses even though a pure sine sub doesn't have harmonics. I don't mean to "nitpick" but what you said simply isn't true.

[Ongelegen]

After a quick google I do now, but I don't know what it has to do with this thread except for you nitpicking on my quote.

But surely you're aware that filtering and EQing has its uses even though a pure sine sub doesn't have harmonics. I don't mean to "nitpick" but what you said simply isn't true.

Well the only use (in my knowledge) would be simply a volume control, but I wouldn't count that as a real use as you can just use the volume itself. Therefor I'll stick to my original quote and just add 'imo' at the end. Yeah, no hard feelings mate.

Feel free to share other uses of filtering/EQing a pure sine

[Autonation]

And basically your options are to raise your kicks out of that deep sub range, or make room for them laterally by ducking the sub via sidechaining, or by programming your sub syncopated with the kick.

Yeah I've heard some people pitchshift their kick up a bit to take it out of the range of the sub and a combination of minimal sidechaining Eqing and filters when used together can be quite efffective and also having two seperate kicks or however many is needed for different parts of the song then applying saturation and eq to the kicks that sound a bit weedy. Thats what ive found is the best way but thanks for the info guys ive got a few new ideas to trial now

[mikeyp]

keep my sub between 40- ~70/80hz
eq kick out at the highest freq my sub is hitting

& done

[Autonation]

keep my sub between 40- ~70/80hz
eq kick out at the highest freq my sub is hitting

& done

Ok what type of kick are you using?

[mikeyp]

keep my sub between 40- ~70/80hz
eq kick out at the highest freq my sub is hitting

& done

Ok what type of kick are you using?

usually just layer vengeance kicks
I don't use that method with 808s though, but i don't use them much
I like all the sub to come from my sub and the kicks to be able to hit on top of my sub whenever with no ducking and no crashing freqs

[Autonation]

I've actually just made a loop which i'll post up tomorrow Ive hit the nail right on the head with this one. frequencys arent clashing and its nice and fresh

[Autonation]

Heres how it turned out

Soundcloud

[Volatile Psycle]

Be careful using steep curved high pass filters on some eq's/filters as they can produce some strange effects/ phasing around the cutoff point.
if you use a liner phase eq this should be less of a problem.

instead of boosting '90-120' as some people say, get a spectrum analyser on your kick and actually see where all the power is coming from. from there you can pitch your kick up or down so that it is in tune with the root note of your sub.
This should help them sit better together before you even reach for an EQ.

Once tuned, notch out a little of the sub where your kick hits hard and then a couple of dB's worth of side chain and they should be living in (closer)harmony

[Autonation]

Be careful using steep curved high pass filters on some eq's/filters as they can produce some strange effects/ phasing around the cutoff point.
if you use a liner phase eq this should be less of a problem.

instead of boosting '90-120' as some people say, get a spectrum analyser on your kick and actually see where all the power is coming from. from there you can pitch your kick up or down so that it is in tune with the root note of your sub.
This should help them sit better together before you even reach for an EQ.

Once tuned, notch out a little of the sub where your kick hits hard and then a couple of dB's worth of side chain and they should be living in (closer)harmony

A good idea, ill have to invest in a liner phase eq i have one in t-racks but its quite cpu intensive. I tend to boost the frequencys by ear but i break out the spectrum analyser if need be. I do use minimal sidechain compression and i feel that ive been able to achieve a great harmony between the sub and kick check out the 8bars i just posted up and give me your opinion on that.

Thx

[Volatile Psycle]

Truesay, they are cpu intensive but if you find yourself using only a handful of go-to kicks to beef your drums up then its worth bouncing them down with the highpass already applied.