Plug-ins effect on mixing

[bigdaveo11]

This is kind of a stupid question but something I have been wondering about. How do you guys balance your mixing in regards to plug-ins. I know lots of plug-ins increase the level of the channel fader since they are adding additional harmonics or adding level to the sound. Do you monitor the output gain of each plug in your chain? I feel like this would come into play with a long chain of plug-ins where each one is consistently adding to the signal, do you just adjust the output knob on the plug-in and set it back to 0?

Then there is the use of sends/bus's. I always get confused on how to balance my mix using sends/bus's. For example If i send the high part of my bass to some distortion and other effects on a bus how would i go about balancing the bus in relation to the overall mix? I know grouping sounds together such as all my bass sounds into a single bus can be used to balance the overall level, while adjusting each individual part of my bass sound.

Sorry if this sounds confusing, just trying to clear things up in my head, i always over complicate issues and sometimes do not make sense at all, anyway I appreciate any attempt at these questions.

to summarize i guess what I am trying to ask is: do you always make sure your individual plug-ins aren't clipping and is the best way to make sure of this/reduce this by reducing the output gain the plug in itself?

[jaimelee]

Generally when I have a huge chain going, my monitoring is on a very basic level because sometimes clipping will give you a certain sound you may want. Unless it's a soft noise, I won't really worry that much about output levels in my plug-in chains. As long as the effect itself is there, I will leave the levelling until it comes to a proper gain structuring once all the components are there for a basic song structure.
It's good to question such things, sometimes can catch myself almost screaming over something like 0.04dB

Basic answer = If afraid it's going nuts even though it has made the noise you want, either reduce output or smack a limiter on that nasty until you get around to making changes!

[bigdaveo11]

sounds good jaimelee! just the type of answer i was looking for!

[Basic A]

Generally when I have a huge chain going, my monitoring is on a very basic level because sometimes clipping will give you a certain sound you may want. Unless it's a soft noise, I won't really worry that much about output levels in my plug-in chains. As long as the effect itself is there, I will leave the levelling until it comes to a proper gain structuring once all the components are there for a basic song structure.
It's good to question such things, sometimes can catch myself almost screaming over something like 0.04dB

Basic answer = If afraid it's going nuts even though it has made the noise you want, either reduce output or smack a limiter on that nasty until you get around to making changes!

no no no no no.

gain staging is everything. Each time you change a sound, you change its output signal, this will effect the next signal in the chain... you shouldnt ignore that... its kinda leaving things to the fates... this question is really kinda un-answerable, but yes, you should always consider input level > output level of everything.

[macc]

Ideally, the perceived level in and out of any process should be the same.

How can you judge the difference in SOUND (which is the point of doing whatever you're doing) if the output signal is much louder or quieter than the input?

[jaimelee]

no no no no no.

gain staging is everything. Each time you change a sound, you change its output signal, this will effect the next signal in the chain... you shouldnt ignore that... its kinda leaving things to the fates... this question is really kinda un-answerable, but yes, you should always consider input level > output level of everything.

Having an initial idea for a level is fine but it will have to change as you further add, take away and change your song.
Can't say "That's that and I'm not changing it!", there is no real answer.

( P.S. Where the hell you been man? Been messaging you since last weekend! )

[bigdaveo11]

ok thanks for the replies. Keep forgetting to consider the fact that when something sounds "louder" it can trick your ears into it sounding "better" as well. anyway appreciate the discussion.

[Eat Bass]

i had this same thought a few weeks back. but yeah after i add an effect i reduce the volume until its around the same volume as it was before the effect. and as stated above, sometimes it doesn't even sound better when there the same levels, just when it was louder. so yeah generally try to keep the inputs/outputs pretty equal. as far as mixing busses that just has to be according to taste, how much of the effected signal YOU want in the mix.

[bigdaveo11]

Nice^ thank you "eat bass"!

[Basic A]

no no no no no.

gain staging is everything. Each time you change a sound, you change its output signal, this will effect the next signal in the chain... you shouldnt ignore that... its kinda leaving things to the fates... this question is really kinda un-answerable, but yes, you should always consider input level > output level of everything.

Having an initial idea for a level is fine but it will have to change as you further add, take away and change your song.
Can't say "That's that and I'm not changing it!", there is no real answer.

( P.S. Where the hell you been man? Been messaging you since last weekend! )

You find me a decent make plugin that doesnt have a post gain, no matter what the plugins function. You should be setting that to the appropriate level for the the context of whats about to be put on the chain after it. If your plugin set doesnt have a post gain, get a better one. But the pre level determines the effect which then gets post-gained to where it needs to be, this is an ancient rule of thumb for studio engineering. The pre effects the processing, output becomes the post and both need balanced. Gain structure.

Workin like a dog and only ever on mobile browser for my shitty phone for facebook, AIMs usually a better bet, it actually works with my mobile haha