COMMERCIAL VS. UNDERGROUND - On Trying To Combine The Two

[wirez]

http://whyrez.tumblr.com/post/181891278 ... ombine-the

A blog I recently did regarding what it says on the tin. Thought I'd share it here as it might spark some interesting debate.

[dubfordessert]

i don't think making music geared to appeal to a specific narrow set of people is better than gearing it to succeed commercially. tbh i don't think a lot of people even consciously gear their music to be commercial (maybe i'm being naive), they just listen to the same sort of music as they make and/or they're not very imaginative

[fractal]

“For me music is more than just 'underground' or 'commercial' - it occupies a spectrum between subtle, like a taste for home-cooked vegetables that develops over time, and obvious, like a taste for fast food, fizzy drinks or other such widely advertised or instantly gratifying products." - Ruckspin

[Hircine]

Man your face is melting you should see a doctor

[speak braille]

I think the fact that you're considering each one as a separate entity betrays your lack of respect for music in that you believe in compromising or watering it down for 'mass appeal'. I also believe that people having such aims and distinctions perpetuates the divide even further.

Just make good music. Regardless of arena or known formula.

[seckle]

either you make readily digestible music (Intro-buildup-drop-breakdown-drop-fade out), or you make music that doesn't follow formulas & patterns. there's no right or wrong. there's only choices, and one makes you money very quickly all at once, and the other lets you sustain a longer career. a fast rise, is always a fast fall. even more so in dance music than other genres.

[Sonika]

I really think that a large part of music is the philosophy behind it. What the artist sets out do to defines the entire music creation process.
For example, I recently came across a video of David Guetta in the studio with some pop singer. Guetta rubs his hands together and says, "welcome to our hit factory! This is where I make my hits, me and him are about to make some chart-toppers!"
Well, that's one mentality - trying to make music that will please the masses.

The other one is really well described by Mala. I recently watched his interview at Red Bull Academy (REALLY great interview if you haven't seen it), and he was really stressing how he's NOT selling anything to anyone. He doesn't want to make money, he wants to make music.

There's two mentalities - I'd say one could be described as "commercial," and the other one could be described as "underground." just depends on your preference, really.

[seckle]

needs to be said now more than ever...when you sit down at your music station, do you make music, or do you make a genre of music?

miles davis didn't pick up a trumpet, and say to himself, i'm going to make smooth jazz today. he just made music. same with hendrix. same with marley. same with anyone that carved out their own sound. so many people on this forum are hindering their creativity buy being boxed into making "dubstep", because it needs to made.

make what you want and feel, and let other people tell you what genre it is. that is unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012. then by all means sit down and write "dubstep" , get a press kit, get a million views on youtube, an agent, and sell everything at beatport. follow someone else's formula, or make your own.

[Sonika]

I agree ^
Another thing Mala said in the Red Bull interview was why put things in boxes? Why do we need to put thing in boxes? The interviewer asked him if he made "dubstep," and he basically said "I make music."

[speak braille]

needs to be said now more than ever...when you sit down at your music station, do you make music, or do you make a genre of music?

miles davis didn't pick up a trumpet, and say to himself, i'm going to make smooth jazz today. he just made music. same with hendrix. same with marley. same with anyone that carved out their own sound. so many people on this forum are hindering their creativity buy being boxed into making "dubstep", because it needs to made now. immediately.

make what you want and feel, and let other people tell you what genre it is. that is unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012. then by all means sit down and write "dubstep" , get a press kit, get a million views on youtube, an agent, and sell everything at beatport. follow someone else's formula, or make your own.

And to anyone that would actually think that the latter part of Seckles proposal sounds enticing, realize that the minute you do so you have an expiration date on your forehead because hype and trends last even less than they ever did in the past thanks to the internet and even if you "hit it big" "like skrillex" you're still making pennies because of the cost to the marketing machine that keeps you "relevant" (i.e. spammed like a venereal disease all across the land). Your digital trash soon deleted from hard drives all across the world.

[leyenda]

needs to be said now more than ever...when you sit down at your music station, do you make music, or do you make a genre of music?

miles davis didn't pick up a trumpet, and say to himself, i'm going to make smooth jazz today. he just made music. same with hendrix. same with marley. same with anyone that carved out their own sound. so many people on this forum are hindering their creativity buy being boxed into making "dubstep", because it needs to made.

make what you want and feel, and let other people tell you what genre it is. that is unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012. then by all means sit down and write "dubstep" , get a press kit, get a million views on youtube, an agent, and sell everything at beatport. follow someone else's formula, or make your own.

And to anyone that would actually think that the latter part of Seckles proposal sounds enticing, realize that the minute you do so you have an expiration date on your forehead because hype and trends last even less than they ever did in the past thanks to the internet and even if you "hit it big" "like skrillex" you're still making pennies because of the cost to the marketing machine that keeps you "relevant" (i.e. spammed like a venereal disease all across the land). Your digital trash soon deleted from hard drives all across the world.

Don't fully agree with either you or Seckle to be honest. If you're a Dutch trance super DJ you can keep making really formulaic, cookie-cutter shite and apparently still have tons of people sucking your dick 15 years later.

[speak braille]

needs to be said now more than ever...when you sit down at your music station, do you make music, or do you make a genre of music?

miles davis didn't pick up a trumpet, and say to himself, i'm going to make smooth jazz today. he just made music. same with hendrix. same with marley. same with anyone that carved out their own sound. so many people on this forum are hindering their creativity buy being boxed into making "dubstep", because it needs to made.

make what you want and feel, and let other people tell you what genre it is. that is unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012. then by all means sit down and write "dubstep" , get a press kit, get a million views on youtube, an agent, and sell everything at beatport. follow someone else's formula, or make your own.

And to anyone that would actually think that the latter part of Seckles proposal sounds enticing, realize that the minute you do so you have an expiration date on your forehead because hype and trends last even less than they ever did in the past thanks to the internet and even if you "hit it big" "like skrillex" you're still making pennies because of the cost to the marketing machine that keeps you "relevant" (i.e. spammed like a venereal disease all across the land). Your digital trash soon deleted from hard drives all across the world.

Don't fully agree with either you or Seckle to be honest. If you're a Dutch trance super DJ you can keep making really formulaic, cookie-cutter shite and apparently still have tons of people sucking your dick 15 years later.

That's because they came up at the height of the last decade, pre-internet, when thanks to the lack of information (choice) and major label backing their image and persona were able to achieve god-like status, not to mention it was the last decade when people in the 16-25 year old demographic bought into the rock star idol worship mythology. Nowadays everyone thinks they can be that source of worship as opposed to the worshipper thanks to youtube and similar social media tools; delusions of grandeur are not only for the privileged commercial/major label star.

[seckle]

pre-internet, when thanks to the lack of information (choice) and major label backing their image and persona were able to achieve god-like status

1000% percent.

another major point is that dubstep started before internet-radio really boomed and became affordable to anyone. in the realplayer/wma stream era(2002-2004), which was a total shit show, full of bugs. then within a few years (2004-2006) all that changed instantly, and suddenly an underground scene still largely on pirate radio, became a 24hr worldwide streaming scene. dubstep fell into the right place/right time for net consumption, and its a huge factor in its popularity globally today. the commercial/underground viewpoint doesn't matter now as maybe 80% of its audience doesn't understand (nor care) for its history.

[wirez]

unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012.

Just out of interest... Who wouldn't want that?

[wirez]

Also just out of interest... Did anybody read the blog or just the title & then commented?

[seckle]

unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012.

Just out of interest... Who wouldn't want that?

if you know enough about the music business, you'll understand very quickly that you don't want some enormous instant popularity buzz. very few artists can maintain that momentum, and as soon as sales or the the buzz wains, the industry goes on to the next thing. its the difference between a 3 yr career in music and a 20yr career.

before the internet, the music industry and A&R's signed artists to build their career over several albums. all that is gone now as singles mean more than albums, and a&r'ing has been replaced with social media strategy.

[speak braille]

Seckle Knows.

[leyenda]

unless, you want to be touring the world, making big checks, and following a formula for success by the summer of 2012.

Just out of interest... Who wouldn't want that?

if you know enough about the music business, you'll understand very quickly that you don't want some enormous instant popularity buzz. very few artists can maintain that momentum, and as soon as sales or the the buzz wains, the industry goes on to the next thing. its the difference between a 3 yr career in music and a 20yr career.

before the internet, the music industry and A&R's signed artists to build their career over several albums. all that is gone now as singles mean more than albums, and a&r'ing has been replaced with social media strategy.

I see what you're saying but I think if you still maintain the support of the underground from where you came then there's nothing wrong with a sudden surge in popularity. Skream and Benga will be around and supported after dubstep's no longer the fad of the moment. Same goes with Burial, James Blake and SBTRKT who are fairly well known now. Who cares if you can maintain the momentum if you still have your core fan base there at the end of it.

[fractal]

^ yes, but none of those people had a "sudden surge in popularity" did they? james blake and sbtrkt spent years on the forum posting tunes before they got big. burial was probably the fastest to rise back then and even then it took a couple eps and an album to make people take notice... skream and benga have been putting music out for a long time. they did the work

[scattybeanhead]

“For me music is more than just 'underground' or 'commercial' - it occupies a spectrum between subtle, like a taste for home-cooked vegetables that develops over time, and obvious, like a taste for fast food, fizzy drinks or other such widely advertised or instantly gratifying products." - Ruckspin

love this quote, not sure where i've heard it before though... very true