KONY 2012

[James Kofi]

The whole africa situation is like rubbing suncream on a burns victim.

[James Kofi]

although it's more like rubbing money on a fire.

[weedlefruit]

You lot are going to find your gears increasingly ground in the modern world... it used to take a bestselling novel and a couple of decades to let the world know about something, now it takes a day and a half. I'd suggest getting slightly thicker skin... if you find other people showing an interest in a cause that doesn't interest you that much upsetting, you're really going to be at the end of your tether by the end of the decade.

Tbh, I'm not sure that's really why most people are taking a contrary position on this at all - it smacks of elitism to me. People are desperate to be seen to dislike the cause because it got so popular too quickly and so it doesn't feel cool or clever. Same reason most people don't like Adele, Brostep and LOLCats.

I totally get what you mean (although cats are funny and Adele deserved every award she got) and as I said, I didn't want to be that contrarian guy but my opposition isn't to the cause or that people are talking about it, but the reasons people are posting it around.

[hutyluty]

You lot are going to find your gears increasingly ground in the modern world... it used to take a bestselling novel and a couple of decades to let the world know about something, now it takes a day and a half. I'd suggest getting slightly thicker skin... if you find other people showing an interest in a cause that doesn't interest you that much upsetting, you're really going to be at the end of your tether by the end of the decade.

Tbh, I'm not sure that's really why most people are taking a contrary position on this at all - it smacks of elitism to me. People are desperate to be seen to dislike the cause because it got so popular too quickly and so it doesn't feel cool or clever. Same reason most people don't like Adele, Brostep and LOLCats.

Because i see no way in which the cause benefits anyone in any way. It is different to Brostep and lolcats (i like adele) as peoples lives are at stake: blundering with troops into an already complex situation will just give rise to more chaos and the capture of Kony, which would mean the whole thing would be lauded as a success would instead just sow more chaos into the politics of the country.

It would be great to get rid of Kony. He and his forces have left abductions and mass murder in their wake for over 20 years.
But let's get two things straight:
1) Joseph Kony is not in Uganda and hasn't been for six years;
2) The LRA now numbers at most in the hundreds, and while it is still causing immense suffering, it is unclear how millions of well-meaning but misinformed people are going to help deal with the more complicated reality.

The people of Uganda (and of the internet) may get a small amount of petty satisfaction from the arrest of Kony but it will not change anything within the country. To me, 'justice' campaigns, from the hunt for Karadzic and his ilk to the whole business with Bin Laden do not benefit anyone and are a surefire way of remaining rooted in the past. A campaing to improve the healthcare, education and living standards for those affected by the evils of Kony, yes, I could get behind that- but it doesn't have the good v evil narrative of this video and so will never become viral.


edit: lolcats are also great

[llennnn16]

Apologies in adance

Rant in 3....2......1....

What annoys me about this is that all the people on my wacebook wall are only posting this because it's the latest "Look at what a good person I am" bullshit bandwagon that people go on about. Just an excuse for people to feel like the hero for a minute.

I gurantee that not one single person I know that is talking about this is actually going to make a concerted effort to work towards the solution because the people posting it are the same people who are now posting pictures of that african kid meme photo with captions like "woke up today, didn't get abducted by Kony".
No one will donate even a penny to the cause, no one will read more about it. Having that Kony poster on their wall is their idea of solving the worlds problems. Their way of showing how much they care without caring.

I hope people will take notice and try to fix the worlds problems, But everyday there are causes that can even affect and solve problems that are much closer to home and much more personal to all of us that no one takes any notice of and It grinds my gears that people get so angry about things for 2 minutes until the next injustice they have never heard of goes viral but won't do anything to help it.

I don't want to sound like a total tnuc here so apologies again, But I just needed to get it off my chest.

Dont apolagise, youre spot on mate. Anyone that cant see that is seriously misguided.

Cheers, I didn't want to be that contrarian guy that posts on everyones status' to say how benign and masturbatory the posting of this stuff is as most of them are my friends but cripes, Make a difference or leave it!

this ^ is my reasoning as to why i thought nothing of this, because a good chunk of the people that are doing this now, posting and telling everyone are doing it because its the "new thing happening", and knowing that only gets me angry that they want to prove to everyone how much they care but really don't. At least im honest enough in saying i feel for the abducted children's struggle but im def not gonna join this invisible children and kony movement.

[weedlefruit]

Apologies in adance

Rant in 3....2......1....

What annoys me about this is that all the people on my wacebook wall are only posting this because it's the latest "Look at what a good person I am" bullshit bandwagon that people go on about. Just an excuse for people to feel like the hero for a minute.

I gurantee that not one single person I know that is talking about this is actually going to make a concerted effort to work towards the solution because the people posting it are the same people who are now posting pictures of that african kid meme photo with captions like "woke up today, didn't get abducted by Kony".
No one will donate even a penny to the cause, no one will read more about it. Having that Kony poster on their wall is their idea of solving the worlds problems. Their way of showing how much they care without caring.

I hope people will take notice and try to fix the worlds problems, But everyday there are causes that can even affect and solve problems that are much closer to home and much more personal to all of us that no one takes any notice of and It grinds my gears that people get so angry about things for 2 minutes until the next injustice they have never heard of goes viral but won't do anything to help it.

I don't want to sound like a total tnuc here so apologies again, But I just needed to get it off my chest.

Dont apolagise, youre spot on mate. Anyone that cant see that is seriously misguided.

Cheers, I didn't want to be that contrarian guy that posts on everyones status' to say how benign and masturbatory the posting of this stuff is as most of them are my friends but cripes, Make a difference or leave it!

this ^ is my reasoning as to why i thought nothing of this, because a good chunk of the people that are doing this now, posting and telling everyone are doing it because its the "new thing happening", and knowing that only gets me angry that they want to prove to everyone how much they care but really don't. At least im honest enough in saying i feel for the abducted children's struggle but im def not gonna join this invisible children and kony movement.

Yup. I'm not an elitist asshole because I don't want people to pretend to give a shit. I want people to give a shit, But I want people also to know just how complicated this and every other situation is and that whatever you see on the face of it is almost always not the case, or not the solution.

If the people on facebook ruled the world and solved all of the problems they think are there, we'd all be fucked. That's what needs to change.

[James Kofi]

first it was my clothes then my music taste and now even my intentions need to be emotionally authentic?

[Genevieve]

Would you rather have people give a shit and have nothing happen, or people not give a shit and something happen?

It mostly just reeks of being spoiled. You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

[weedlefruit]

Would you rather have people give a shit and have nothing happen, or people not give a shit and something happen?

It mostly just reeks of being spoiled. You can't always have your cake and eat it too.

[Genevieve]

Well, it's true. What your argument basically is is 'people aren't the way I want them to be'. Well, tough shit. They never will be.

[magma]

Because i see no way in which the cause benefits anyone in any way. It is different to Brostep and lolcats (i like adele) as peoples lives are at stake: blundering with troops into an already complex situation will just give rise to more chaos and the capture of Kony, which would mean the whole thing would be lauded as a success would instead just sow more chaos into the politics of the country.

Given that governments control the military and not Facebook groups (and that we're already pretty familiar with how governments choose to go or not go to war fairly independently of their populations - 1m people can march against war and we'll still go - why would the reverse not be equally true?), the military action part of it is fairly moot... the campaign is aimed at making the guy and the issue famous... any military action would be pretty severely vetted by all the usual people that decide military issues - the government, the armed forces and the law lords.

Propaganda always goes further than the sensible mind, its job is to be extreme like any kind of marketing (Carlsberg certainly isn't the best lager in the world, but we don't call them liars every time an advert comes on... we realise it's marketing)... once the extreme message been filtered by several million people, argued about with several million more and eventually raised as a policy issue by government, it's usually gone down several pegs. Actually, the only tangible thing the campaign is acheiving is making the guy and the issue famous - it's up to everyone else (and most importantly, elected governments/the UN) to decide what to do about it once they know... it may well be nothing for exactly the reasons stated by everyone in this thread.

The important precident is that a single issue charity/campaign has managed to promote itself so effectively in such a short period of time. Whether this particular cause is righteous or anyone chooses to do anything about it or not, that's a really positive sign for our humanity.

[weedlefruit]

Because i see no way in which the cause benefits anyone in any way. It is different to Brostep and lolcats (i like adele) as peoples lives are at stake: blundering with troops into an already complex situation will just give rise to more chaos and the capture of Kony, which would mean the whole thing would be lauded as a success would instead just sow more chaos into the politics of the country.

Given that governments control the military and not Facebook groups (and that we're already pretty familiar with how governments choose to go or not go to war fairly independently of their populations - 1m people can march against war and we'll still go - why would the reverse not be equally true?), the military action part of it is fairly moot... the campaign is aimed at making the guy and the issue famous... any military action would be pretty severely vetted by all the usual people that decide military issues - the government, the armed forces and the law lords.

Propaganda always goes further than the sensible mind, its job is to be extreme like any kind of marketing (Carlsberg certainly isn't the best lager in the world, but we don't call them liars every time an advert comes on... we realise it's marketing)... once the extreme message been filtered by several million people, argued about with several million more and eventually raised as a policy issue by government, it's usually gone down several pegs. Actually, the only tangible thing the campaign is acheiving is making the guy and the issue famous - it's up to everyone else (and most importantly, elected governments/the UN) to decide what to do about it once they know... it may well be nothing for exactly the reasons stated by everyone in this thread.

The important precident is that a single issue charity/campaign has managed to promote itself so effectively in such a short period of time. Whether this particular cause is righteous or anyone chooses to do anything about it or not, that's a really positive sign for our humanity.

I do totally agree with you, by that token I guess the people that would be able to make the difference would already be aware of this issue though, and so people calling for something to do be done would be just as pointless as had been suggested?

It seems people might have got me wrong, I'm not bagging on everyones opinions, Just putting forward how I felt on the matter. But yeah, you are right on this, the people in power have and will continue to try and make things right with or without the support of the public and I guess at the end of the day, there is a hell of a to do list to get through before justice is done everywhere

[magma]

I do totally agree with you, by that token I guess the people that would be able to make the difference would already be aware of this issue though, and so people calling for something to do be done would be just as pointless as had been suggested?

It seems people might have got me wrong, I'm not bagging on everyones opinions, Just putting forward how I felt on the matter. But yeah, you are right on this, the people in power have and will continue to try and make things right with or without the support of the public and I guess at the end of the day, there is a hell of a to do list to get through before justice is done everywhere

The to do list to improve humanity is never ending... it's only 15 years or so since we had to sort out ethnic cleansing in our own continent and under half a century since MLK was killed in the States. We've got a long way further to go than we've come.

It actually sounded from the video that the US government already had this on their radar and already have some military resources working on it - training the Ugandan military etc. They said they wanted to make the issue famous so that momentum wasn't lost... tbh, I'd rather have the people pressuring their government to chase genuine atrocities than, say, "sorting out" Iran. Perhaps the worry (and hence urgency of the PR campaign) is that little issues like this are in danger of being steamrollered by media/government propaganda to justify another illadvised adventure in the Middle East?

[Dub_freak]

i just want to slap the smug off that man's face, don't trust him one bit. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume the US military is gonna use momentum from this video to increase the number of troops in uganda for the most ppreeeccciioouss resource. all in the name of humanity and good will! america the protector of the weak!

^this

2010 is the year america started sending support because that is also the year they found oil there. Its exactly like iraq, but instead they will use the excuse of kony to make it look like they are doing something good again.

[legend4ry]

Just finished watching the video & read the thread.




Heres some thoughts..



I have worked in charity and its a pretty easy to find fact that what a charity gets in donations isn't instantly implemented into aid. There is no one so charitable in this world that they'll not want to receive some sort of payment while doing their job; after all it is a job.

That being said; I think it was 19p of every pound donated to the British Red Cross will not go (it was a while ago, might be the other way around, I forgot exact figures) into aid but into the charity's other financial needs like Campaigns. One of the campaigns I worked on from one of the leading Charity's in the UK spend a 7 figure number on fundraisers, physical products, TV adverts and other promotional tools and thats without peoples pay; there is bound to be at least low 6 figure salary for the head honcho - surely?


Charity's are not as dodge as people think they just don't work how everything thinks they should. A small charity like this one (well, was small) would of needed a lot of expenses for individual people as marketing, researching and fieldwork all cost money and it makes sense not to hire more people when you can do it yourself. That being said; I haven't read all the information about the money situation of these guys I am just using my knowledge of what I have worked in, in the past!


I think the campaign is something which will either leave peoples homeland worse than what it already is in terms of political pressure or need further contributions from the rest of the world with the bill raising every year. Kony is really just the top layer; yeah that layer is made out of solid concrete and will be hard to get rid of but its not impossible then you have all the rest to deal with.

Its about time people want to do -something- to help Africa in a bigger and more prolonged impacting way unlike children in need or w/e that bullshit is on tv each year.

[JTMMusicuk]

Just finished watching the video & read the thread.




Heres some thoughts..



I have worked in charity and its a pretty easy to find fact that what a charity gets in donations isn't instantly implemented into aid. There is no one so charitable in this world that they'll not want to receive some sort of payment while doing their job; after all it is a job.

That being said; I think it was 19p of every pound donated to the British Red Cross will not go (it was a while ago, might be the other way around, I forgot exact figures) into aid but into the charity's other financial needs like Campaigns. One of the campaigns I worked on from one of the leading Charity's in the UK spend a 7 figure number on fundraisers, physical products, TV adverts and other promotional tools and thats without peoples pay; there is bound to be at least low 6 figure salary for the head honcho - surely?


Charity's are not as dodge as people think they just don't work how everything thinks they should. A small charity like this one (well, was small) would of needed a lot of expenses for individual people as marketing, researching and fieldwork all cost money and it makes sense not to hire more people when you can do it yourself. That being said; I haven't read all the information about the money situation of these guys I am just using my knowledge of what I have worked in, in the past!


I think the campaign is something which will either leave peoples homeland worse than what it already is in terms of political pressure or need further contributions from the rest of the world with the bill raising every year. Kony is really just the top layer; yeah that layer is made out of solid concrete and will be hard to get rid of but its not impossible then you have all the rest to deal with.

Its about time people want to do -something- to help Africa in a bigger and more prolonged impacting way unlike children in need or w/e that bullshit is on tv each year.

I see your point, but 90% of charity workers get paid from government grants and not from donation money where as the other 10% volenteer. These guys are obviously new and dont have government based financial support yet which is why theyre doing it this way.
Saying that though their salary is still a bit high for people doing it just for the cause, if they were getting an average wage from it i would be less suspicious

[hutyluty]

Because i see no way in which the cause benefits anyone in any way. It is different to Brostep and lolcats (i like adele) as peoples lives are at stake: blundering with troops into an already complex situation will just give rise to more chaos and the capture of Kony, which would mean the whole thing would be lauded as a success would instead just sow more chaos into the politics of the country.

Given that governments control the military and not Facebook groups (and that we're already pretty familiar with how governments choose to go or not go to war fairly independently of their populations - 1m people can march against war and we'll still go - why would the reverse not be equally true?), the military action part of it is fairly moot... the campaign is aimed at making the guy and the issue famous... any military action would be pretty severely vetted by all the usual people that decide military issues - the government, the armed forces and the law lords.

Propaganda always goes further than the sensible mind, its job is to be extreme like any kind of marketing (Carlsberg certainly isn't the best lager in the world, but we don't call them liars every time an advert comes on... we realise it's marketing)... once the extreme message been filtered by several million people, argued about with several million more and eventually raised as a policy issue by government, it's usually gone down several pegs. Actually, the only tangible thing the campaign is acheiving is making the guy and the issue famous - it's up to everyone else (and most importantly, elected governments/the UN) to decide what to do about it once they know... it may well be nothing for exactly the reasons stated by everyone in this thread.

The important precident is that a single issue charity/campaign has managed to promote itself so effectively in such a short period of time. Whether this particular cause is righteous or anyone chooses to do anything about it or not, that's a really positive sign for our humanity.

It is very exciting to see the impact one video can have upon the world, especially related to a video on a charitable issue and yes, it has created a lot of debate over Uganda and troubles within African states and raising awareness, which can only be positive. However, the success of this video means that I think it will probably end up as the blueprint to many charity campaigns in the future and as I do not believe in the "righteousness" of the cause I can't see this as a good thing: The intense focus on Kony is not going to benefit the people of Uganda only to serve as an excuse for why there is stilll such abject poverty in the region for the (also war criminals) Ugandan rulers, yet the viral seems to have only gained in popularity due to this intense focus.

Hopefully the upshot to videos like this will be greater understanding amongst people about such issues but, in a cynical way, I think the only outcome will be another hate figure for the masses to despise and a greater focus on bringing justice to evil war criminals rather than infact benefitting the world. But, then again, maybe I should just stop being so pessimistic

[legend4ry]

Just finished watching the video & read the thread.




Heres some thoughts..



I have worked in charity and its a pretty easy to find fact that what a charity gets in donations isn't instantly implemented into aid. There is no one so charitable in this world that they'll not want to receive some sort of payment while doing their job; after all it is a job.

That being said; I think it was 19p of every pound donated to the British Red Cross will not go (it was a while ago, might be the other way around, I forgot exact figures) into aid but into the charity's other financial needs like Campaigns. One of the campaigns I worked on from one of the leading Charity's in the UK spend a 7 figure number on fundraisers, physical products, TV adverts and other promotional tools and thats without peoples pay; there is bound to be at least low 6 figure salary for the head honcho - surely?


Charity's are not as dodge as people think they just don't work how everything thinks they should. A small charity like this one (well, was small) would of needed a lot of expenses for individual people as marketing, researching and fieldwork all cost money and it makes sense not to hire more people when you can do it yourself. That being said; I haven't read all the information about the money situation of these guys I am just using my knowledge of what I have worked in, in the past!


I think the campaign is something which will either leave peoples homeland worse than what it already is in terms of political pressure or need further contributions from the rest of the world with the bill raising every year. Kony is really just the top layer; yeah that layer is made out of solid concrete and will be hard to get rid of but its not impossible then you have all the rest to deal with.

Its about time people want to do -something- to help Africa in a bigger and more prolonged impacting way unlike children in need or w/e that bullshit is on tv each year.

I see your point, but 90% of charity workers get paid from government grants and not from donation money where as the other 10% volenteer. These guys are obviously new and dont have government based financial support yet which is why theyre doing it this way.
Saying that though their salary is still a bit high for people doing it just for the cause, if they were getting an average wage from it i would be less suspicious

Depends on the charity, some charities (even big ones) don't get no government support in this country due to we already provide a service of a sufficient manner so their work isn't worth funding.

Still though; if you had the opportunity to earn 90k a year and still keep your charity afloat, keep doing amazing things you would - there are charity regulators in England and America and charities are probably the most carefully looked over economic entities due to a vast history of money laundering and stealing from tax payers - they used to be the easiest way to make dirty money clean; quick and quietly.

I'm not saying these guys ARE legit but if they are not; they will be found out pretty easily with all this new found exposure - they will be looked at so carefully that they wouldn't even be able to fix any wrongs if they have already been committed.


I get everyones point though; its a morality thing.

[SCope13]

lolwut.... the american government are doing something that isnt for just financial gain? thats a first....

O I'm sure there is. We just don't know about it yet.

[magma]

But, then again, maybe I should just stop being so pessimistic

Nah, I'd have nobody to argue with if everyone else was as cheerful as me all the time... and nothing would ever get done. Do you!