Jungle

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:02 pm

perfect example

Around this time is when I first started hearing the term "drum and bass" but its distinctly what "jungle" was at the time.

NickUndercover · Post by **NickUndercover** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:14 pm

I like all those tunes tbh and I have some early RH on vinyl, but I've always considered them drum n bass just like Teebee or Ed Rush.

Would you call this tune jungle ? Same deal.

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:32 pm

i've actually mixed that tune into a jungle/dnb set as recently as like 2005 or 6

granted pitched up like +8

where you run into inconsistancies in jungle is not drum and bass is when jump up came out and it was almost purely associated with the more organic part of the scene.... where as the 'harder' part of the scene distanced itself from jump up.... point being jump up is the furthest thing from an amen smasher in terms of beat but the two of them went together like peanut butter and chocolate.

I guess my question to you would be do you consider die, roni size, krust, mampi swift, etc jungle? of course you do... but they went steppy very very early in life but of course they're identified with 'jungle'... i mean warhead? junglist anthem, but the biggest two step tune maybe ever made

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ywdym0nH3o" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

this was like 96? 97? thats earlyyyyyy blatant jump up but still blatantly jungle.

I view it as all the same... its same pace... i can still mix a dom track from 96 into a breakcore/skully set today and then somehow bring in alien girl and then a die tune no problems... its all the same genre imo

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:55 pm

pkay wrote:Around this time is when I first started hearing the term "drum and bass" but its distinctly what "jungle" was at the time.

Like '98 ish?

With due respect then, you may know your tunes but you pretty clearly don't know the UK scene.

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:59 pm

I'm curious when did the whole therapy sessions/skullstep whatever thing started? (asking this since Dylan/Freak rec. are clearly associated with it)

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:15 pm

slothrop wrote:
pkay wrote:Around this time is when I first started hearing the term "drum and bass" but its distinctly what "jungle" was at the time.
Like '98 ish?

With due respect then, you may know your tunes but you pretty clearly don't know the UK scene.

sorrry to ellaborate i meant drum and bass as a separate genre than jungle

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:24 pm

ultraspatial wrote:I'm curious when did the whole therapy sessions/skullstep whatever thing started? (asking this since Dylan/Freak rec. are clearly associated with it)

therapy sessions been around for a bit... 2003 or so... but the 'skullstep' sub genre was birthed as a separate sub genre in name maybe 2004/5? As the wonky, clowny dnb took over, and techstep started waning from the dominant stance. Started getting huge in 2007 as digital music became the norm and the number of bedroom laptop producers became massive. Then labels like Freak/Obscene, Mindsaw (my old stomping grounds yay yay), etc started putting out absurd numbers of digital releases. Every week a dozen new releases from a half dozen new artists.

Dylan had always been 'heavier' dnb... he had associations with some massive dark labels (cylon, outbreak, XXX, biotic, hardware) but 2005 or so he went noticeably darker and started embracing that part of the scene. Therapy Sessions became a cult movement type of thing and coincided with the rise of the russians and the eastern european pressence in dnb.

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:38 pm

Yeah, saw that Dylan had releases on those, but I wasn't interested since I didn't really like his Freak output.
Don't really get the whole Eastern European scene at all, nor the whole crossbreed thing. A few ok tunes, but it's starting to sound more like gabber than actual dnb.

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:09 pm

ultraspatial wrote:Yeah, saw that Dylan had releases on those, but I wasn't interested since I didn't really like his Freak output.
Don't really get the whole Eastern European scene at all, nor the whole crossbreed thing. A few ok tunes, but it's starting to sound more like gabber than actual dnb.

the Cylon, Biotic, Outbreak stuff is really fantastic drum and bass. Very break oriented, heavy handed shit. The XXX 10" series is one of the most collectible series in the history of DNB. HIGHLY sought after.

Cylon also had one of the heaviest tunes ever... the drop just blows the roof off the place. Universal Project- Jackhammer

Outbreak IMO is where Dylan really came to life. Inferno EP is an all time drum and bass classic. Inferno, Think, Possession Remix

^^ is in my top 5 drum and bass tracks ever.

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:13 pm

Gonna give those a listen. I got some more recent Cylon releases, the CYLONUK ones. Particulary like the Dan Habarnam one.
Is it still run by Dylan & Loxy, or just Loxy?

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:34 pm

ultraspatial wrote:Gonna give those a listen. I got some more recent Cylon releases, the CYLONUK ones. Particulary like the Dan Habarnam one.
Is it still run by Dylan & Loxy, or just Loxy?

newer cylon is a lot different... its more of loxys new sound

as far as I know Cylon has always been run by Loxy.... Dylan just played a heavy hand in it. I forget where Dylan used to work but he had his hands in a lot of shit from 97-2002 as far as getting labels started and up and running.

Dylan owned Biotic, XXX, Spektrum Audio, Raid, and Retro before he moved on to the Freak/Obscene stuff

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:49 pm

pkay wrote:
ultraspatial wrote:Gonna give those a listen. I got some more recent Cylon releases, the CYLONUK ones. Particulary like the Dan Habarnam one.
Is it still run by Dylan & Loxy, or just Loxy?

newer cylon is a lot different... its more of loxys new sound

Dunno about you, but I've been loving Loxy's new stuff. Politicians/Gabriel Gray and Burning Shadows are some of my favourites from 2011.

_cheef_ · Post by **_cheef_** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:56 pm

Didn't really get into much of the skullstep...I think the problem with it, and the reason it died off so quickly, is that people were playing entire sets of nothing but skullstep, and to me that's a big NO! However, throw in a skullstep track here and there in a set and it can turn out great! There are some fantastic skullstep bits from current value from the '05-'07 years...

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAcQ7nQ9n6I" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

^^^
Played this one at the end of a set once; just let the fucker play out while I brocked out on the floor like a madman

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:12 pm

Yeah, CV goes hard. The only skullstep stuff I like. But it didn't really die out. Not here at least. There still are therapy sessions etc. Then there's the dutch crossbreed scene (The Outside Agency, PRSPCT etc)...

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:14 pm

_cheef_ wrote:Didn't really get into much of the skullstep...I think the problem with it, and the reason it died off so quickly, is that people were playing entire sets of nothing but skullstep, and to me that's a big NO! However, throw in a skullstep track here and there in a set and it can turn out great! There are some fantastic skullstep bits from current value from the '05-'07 years...

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAcQ7nQ9n6I" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

^^^
Played this one at the end of a set once; just let the fucker play out while I brocked out on the floor like a madman

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmth-nCNcLs" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2GHDkTyf9Y" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

for me the problem was it was not really a part of the drum and bass scene as a whole.... it really was more a-kin to the breakcore scene. A lot of people tried to force it to mesh with drum and bass socially and it just didnt go. I can say having been knee deep in drum and bass for a decade at the time, when I started doing promotions with Mindsaw and became friends with everyone involved, socially the artists didnt really mesh with the drum and bass scene. The people and fans of the music relating to the darker/skully shit, didnt honestly enjoy drum and bass as a whole. They werent neccessarily enspired by drum and bass. They were this newer generation of folks who were inspired by breakcore and hardcore music.

I still have massive love for all the artists I was involved with in that corner of the scene.... most still make amazing music in that vein, but the audience is a lot smaller. Still some strongholds in west coast USA, and a large following in eastern europe/western russia.

I personally still prefer breakcore over all music and I still involve myself with 'skullstep' as its so close in relation that its easier to work together

by the way, you can download the entire mindsaw back catalogue for free now. http://www.mindsawrecordings.co.uk/

the dude who ran minsdaw came back after a hiatus to start http://www.austerityrecordings.com/ and announced the entire mindsaw catalogue for free... so enjoy that!

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:28 pm

Didn't mindsaw start that dubsaw sub label that outlived it? Remember liking the first releases, 'specially the Culprate ones. Got too bro for my tastes after that...

_cheef_ · Post by **_cheef_** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:35 pm

ultraspatial wrote:Yeah, CV goes hard. The only skullstep stuff I like. But it didn't really die out. Not here at least. There still are therapy sessions etc. Then there's the dutch crossbreed scene (The Outside Agency, PRSPCT etc)...

yeah you're right. People still make it, so I guess it's more of a case of my interest in that style dying out instead of the style itself.

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:36 pm

ultraspatial wrote:Didn't mindsaw start that dubsaw sub label that outlived it? Remember liking the first releases, 'specially the Culprate ones. Got too bro for my tastes after that...

Dubsaw was founded by Xzist, Pkay (Myself), and Brainpain with the blessing of Mindsaws owner Dom.... we all were a part of Mindsaw (Xzist was VP/ran the show, I did promotions, and Brainpain did promotions/did a few releases). Initially we were going to use Mindsaws infrastructure and distribution deals.... however Mindsaw went under, and in order to not go down with it we all left to do Dubsaw on our own.

Myself and Culprate left Dubsaw about a year ago when we were trying to find a home for Culprates Colours/Flatline album. Sine then Dubsaw has just been run by Xzist.

ultraspatial · Post by **ultraspatial** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:49 pm

pkay wrote:
ultraspatial wrote:Didn't mindsaw start that dubsaw sub label that outlived it? Remember liking the first releases, 'specially the Culprate ones. Got too bro for my tastes after that...
Dubsaw was founded by Xzist, Pkay (Myself), and Brainpain with the blessing of Mindsaws owner Dom.... we all were a part of Mindsaw (Xzist was VP/ran the show, I did promotions, and Brainpain did promotions/did a few releases). Initially we were going to use Mindsaws infrastructure and distribution deals.... however Mindsaw went under, and in order to not go down with it we all left to do Dubsaw on our own.

Myself and Culprate left Dubsaw about a year ago when we were trying to find a home for Culprates Colours/Flatline album. Sine then Dubsaw has just been run by Xzist.

Didn't know that. Lost my interest starting with that funtcase/flux release. Though everything before that was quality. Used some tunes in a few mixes actually.

pkay · Post by **pkay** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:03 pm

ultraspatial wrote:
pkay wrote:
ultraspatial wrote:Didn't mindsaw start that dubsaw sub label that outlived it? Remember liking the first releases, 'specially the Culprate ones. Got too bro for my tastes after that...
Dubsaw was founded by Xzist, Pkay (Myself), and Brainpain with the blessing of Mindsaws owner Dom.... we all were a part of Mindsaw (Xzist was VP/ran the show, I did promotions, and Brainpain did promotions/did a few releases). Initially we were going to use Mindsaws infrastructure and distribution deals.... however Mindsaw went under, and in order to not go down with it we all left to do Dubsaw on our own.

Myself and Culprate left Dubsaw about a year ago when we were trying to find a home for Culprates Colours/Flatline album. Sine then Dubsaw has just been run by Xzist.
Didn't know that. Lost my interest starting with that funtcase/flux release. Though everything before that was quality. Used some tunes in a few mixes actually.

couldnt agree more. I was Culprates manager and did a lot of work for KOAN Sound at the time so you can imagine that was the type of shit I'd love to have seen Dubsaw champion.... but Xzist ultimately made the final decisions and had different artists he wanted to go with. I was left alone to do a lot of work and was seeing what was coming out of KOAN/Culprate and when I couldn't get their material out in a timely fashion it frustrated me and led to Xzist and I going our separate ways. He's a good dude and Dubsaw, in their genre of music, is still better than the other rank and file bro shit.... but in hindsight I can't help but feel Dubsaw would have benefited a ton by investing more into Culprate and KOAN Sound as they're now blowing the fuck up and making huge moves.

anywho thats all in the past. Couldn't imagine having to do the shit I did at Dubsaw today with the amount of work I'm putting in. No way that'd happen.

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