Experiment: Mastering and Mixing AT THE SAME TIME

[e-motion]

I know this may look like a very noob question but I ask you to believe (or at least pretend) that I'm not a noob.

For most of us who do the mastering ourselves, instead of paying someone, what do you think about mixing and mastering at the same time? In other words: Mixing with a limiter and a compressor at the master channel (constantly tweaking it as you're tweaking the mix). Has anyone tried this?

I mean, I almost always end up going back to the mix. Also, there's some light projects where I didn't bounce to wav before mastering where I got back to the mix and, in some situations, without turning the mastering chain off.

Obviously, this is strictly to home mastering. I think it has the advantage of hearing the final project but has the disadvantage of having more difficult decisions (like "should I increase the kick volume or increase the attack on the mastering compressor?"). What do you think?

[wub]

I generally mixdown as I go along, but reckon Mastering as I go along wouldn't really work if I'm still fiddling with the elements of the tune.

[Bedup]

Not recommended at all.

[e-motion]

I forgot to add on the post that I mix last.

I'm still going to do this experiment though in a very minimalistic tune I'm working (well, not that minimalistic, but it has fewer elements than the usual so it will be easier to mix).

[jbcrazy]

I don't see the problem with it. Getting a rough mix, trying to master to get an idea of how you're doing. I don't see why'd keep wanting to adjust the maximizer or the multiband compression while mixing... If you see any problems... take off the maximizer and fix the mix.

I think as long as your end product is sweet, its fine no matter how you do it. I think you might be doing alot of back and fourth though doing mixing AND mastering.

[e-motion]

Yeah I agree with the going back part, it can, but the opposite also happens. When I home master I ALWAYS go back to the mix and bounce again, usually more than once.

This idea has it's origin when I produced psy trance. In psy, you have to balance the kick and the bass perfectly. What happened was, as soon as I finished a mix (with a lot of A/B with pro tracks), I put the maximizer in and find out my kick is too low. I adjust it, bounce again, and now, if you listen to the final mix, the kick sounds too loud, but after maximizing it doesn't.
Also, I once got my hands on a pro track before mastering and the same happened, it had the kick too loud. Maybe this is subjective... but I don't know. I'll try it.

[jbcrazy]

So many factors for sure mang. Especially if you're not in a treated room. It is really subjective on volumes sometimes, because of the other elements or the nature of the song and what not. I usually tend to mix the kicks and snare too high as well. I go back and adjust after maximizing.

I guess a purist would just say notch a little bit at around 100 and 200 and voila... quieter snare and bass kick.

Do what works. No one is going to be producing for you nor would you want that.

[bibbyj]

Surely you can;t Master, before you mix, isn't Mastering supposed to put the final finished tune, by giving all the tunes parts there own space within the mix, the icing on the cake, you can't eat the cake without first mixing the ingredients (Sound production), then baking it(arrangement and Mixing).

[OfficialDAPT]

Surely you can;t Master, before you mix, isn't Mastering supposed to put the final finished tune, by giving all the tunes parts there own space within the mix, the icing on the cake, you can't eat the cake without first mixing the ingredients (Sound production), then baking it(arrangement and Mixing).

False. You can eat the ingredients without baking it.

[didi]

I mix after I master all the time. If all your stems are limited and compressed and stereo widened, then it's a doddle setting levels in your mix.

Saves your wonga too.

[e-motion]

Surely you can;t Master, before you mix, isn't Mastering supposed to put the final finished tune, by giving all the tunes parts there own space within the mix, the icing on the cake, you can't eat the cake without first mixing the ingredients (Sound production), then baking it(arrangement and Mixing).

I didn't meant Master before you Mix I meant Master WHILE you mix
If I cook a Spagheti Bolognese, I mix the ingredients while I bake

[mitchAUS]

All these food metaphors are
a) Not that relevant
b) Making me hungry

I WANT SPAGBOLL

[laurend]

I've never gained any quality, nor time in mixing and mastering at the same time.
My personal experience:
- Do your best while mixing to obtain the exact result you want without searching to be load.
- Have a session dedicated to mastering where you boost and polish your sound.

[Bedup]

Surely you can;t Master, before you mix, isn't Mastering supposed to put the final finished tune, by giving all the tunes parts there own space within the mix, the icing on the cake, you can't eat the cake without first mixing the ingredients (Sound production), then baking it(arrangement and Mixing).

False. You can eat the ingredients without baking it.

You can, But it will taste like shit

[VirtualMark]

Surely you can;t Master, before you mix, isn't Mastering supposed to put the final finished tune, by giving all the tunes parts there own space within the mix, the icing on the cake, you can't eat the cake without first mixing the ingredients (Sound production), then baking it(arrangement and Mixing).

I didn't meant Master before you Mix I meant Master WHILE you mix
If I cook a Spagheti Bolognese, I mix the ingredients while I bake

Do you bake bolognese?

What about grating cheese on top? Is that mixing or mastering? I'm confused now.

In all seriousness, mixing and mastering are 2 completely different things. Ideally someone else should master your tune, as they will remain objective. If you're doing it yourself, then you should really do it on a bounced track, rather than trying to do it live while all your automations playing. Else you may end up continually chasing your tail, adjusting track settings then adjusting compression on the master, etc.

[sunny_b_uk]

this is a bad idea because limiters aren't transparent enough and they usually add harmonics so you'll waste time eqing with the limiter on and then again with it off.
next thing u know ul b spending a lot more hours on your songs and coming out with less.
worry about composition more.
why worry about the few sounds in the song being so polished already when you have a 3 or 4 more minutes of a track waiting to be filled up.
its up to you but id only ever try something like this if i was working on a song that was a totally banger and was excited to hear what it would roughly sound like when its finished, but i think slapping a limiter quickly on the master would be as far as i go if the song isnt done.

[Altron]

I'll be 100% honest. A lot of times I give my tracks around 6-3 db of headroom leftover, so I have a tendency to throw a limiter on my master track very early on sometimes. When you have a large amount of headroom, it might require turning it up quite a bit if you wanna hear the mix louder. I guess technically I do exactly what you described. I also turn the limiter on my master on and off at different times while working on my tracks. It puts you in a situation where you are following your tail more often than not. One thing it forces me to do is turn the limiter/mastering program off when eq'ing or adding any sort of processing to sounds, because if you do things like that with a mastering plugin on, when you turn it off things wont sound the same as what you were intending. If you really wanna do both at the same time, it isn't a terrible idea as long as you try not to do any processing/eq'ing with a mastering plugin enabled. What I do is just switch on the mastering chain if I wanna get a quick preview of how it will sound then switch it off when i'm doing any changes that my mastering might interfere with.

[Sharmaji]

the mix is still part of the macro, and internal-facing, side of production-- balancing levels, getting the drum sound, using mix tools to highlight elements, etc.

mastering is mico and external-facing-- how the release stands up to its commercial competitors, how all the songs in the release work together, how to ideally create an emotive flow from A to B to C song.. etc

not necessarily at odds with each other, but def. different goals, and different headspaces, for each.