Dynamics and not squashing the shit out of your master

[deadly_habit]

Ok so I just popped on Zeppelin's II LP for general listening while I'm doing some programming, and first thing that jumped out at me is well this seems a bit quieter than the normal modern stuff i listen to, so quick solution turned up the gain on my monitors.
Second observation, holy shit I can hear the nuances of the various instruments, the intricate bits of panning going on more than normal, also even at the higher volume than I normally listen to stuff on it's not as fatiguing on my ears, it's actually pleasant regardless of if you're a fan of the content.

So this leaves me to ask why do we continue on with the loudness wars when technology and the quality of our gear and knowledge we have in recording and the fields are so much more vast than back then?

[Echoi]

Clearly, louder = better!!

But no, you're right, i think the same thing every time i listen to some back in the day material.

The loudness war will probably never go away though, much of the music we listen to has branched off into brash in your faceness, therefore the volume has to match the music. Not saying i agree with it though.

[deadly_habit]

the funny thing is i have the remasters from 1994 as well (boxsets are awesome) and they didn't squash the shit out of the dynamics with those either

[Echoi]

Were people squashing fuck out of songs as far back as that then? I know it was roughly around then, maybe a little later that brickwalling came about

[deadly_habit]

technically it can be traced back to 70s vinyl cutting techniques where they'd master so the first bits of a record were louder than the rest of a song or that side since they couldn't fit the whole tune to the plate at the level and would gradually reduce it giving a sort of impact to the start of songs

this is worth a look at if you're interested in the history of it a bit http://media.npr.org/assets/music/news/ ... poster.pdf

[Echoi]

Worth a look

[nowaysj]

Think time periods have a sound. You know, the 30's has a sound. Well, we're in a period of time with really shitty sound quality too, by objective standards, at least. We may look back 50 years from now, kind of nostalgically and romanticize these times of extremely small amounts of dynamic range, and the future's kids like virtual mark will just not get it an be like that shit sucks, we can have recordings with such great dynamic range nowadays, why would anyone listen to music with 4dbs of dynamic range? Jokes.

[3za]

holy shit I can hear the nuances of the various instruments

Surely compression helps with hearing these...

Few months back I smashed the shit out of a vocal, and in between the darth vader breathing I could hear their heart beating

I think what your hearing with led zepplin stuff, starts right at the beginning of the recording, and carries on right till the end. Amazing instruments, played by amazing musicians, recorded by amazing engineers, in an amazing room, with amazing mic's.... I think you get the picture

But yeah the loudness war is shit, and is destroying music for us audio geeks, but I think thats because of the lack of dynamics, not the lack of clarity. In fact I think most modern music has too much clarity, that it lacks soul.

But to conclude I got to say, that their drum sound is the best ever

[Promise One]

Was this inspired by the recent Tony Andrews TED talk? I don't know its crazy. I put on an old Steppenwolf LP last Sat night before going out to listen to mainly dubstep / bass music and it was a nice change to hear 70's production values. Track in question is here, (the masterful 128kb version)



The mix is beautiful on the LP version.

Some hope? - http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/

[deadly_habit]

no wasn't inspired by that, just general observation

[_v_]

I think perhaps the music itself is to blame also.

Alot of music these days have no intricate subtleties, no quiet parts, just big in your face sounds, therefore no need for dynamic range in the mix.

ive seen wavforms of number 1 pop tunes, totally flat squares with 0 db dynamic range, crazy!

Dont think people want to chill out and delve into the subtlties of a track anymore...

they just want something simple & loud that they can sing to while pissed on the weekend

[Sharmaji]

loudness, starting from signal-to-noise ratios, has pretty much always been a part of the industry since it's existed. certainly w/ music meant for dance stuff-- Motown was notorious for having the hottest masters around at the time. Same goes for Studio One in jamaica-- whichever label had the hottest-sounding tunes would sell more records, period.

while you can generally fit more level on vinyl, it comes with a higher noise floor. in the 80s, things mastered for CD were considerably louder than their vinyl counterparts (I remember listening to Paul Simon's "Graceland" when i was in grade school w/ my parents and aunt & uncle and switching between vinyl & CD)-- pretty incredible.

Things didn't really get out of hand until the very late 90s/early 2000s... right around the time that mp3's took over, Congress passed the bills that allowed clearchannel to take over everything, and sales started to dip. a perfect storm to get us to the dark side.

The Adele record has a huge dynamic range. So does the new Jack White record; there is hope.

[jbcrazy]

I think perhaps the music itself is to blame also.

Alot of music these days have no intricate subtleties, no quiet parts, just big in your face sounds, therefore no need for dynamic range in the mix.

ive seen wavforms of number 1 pop tunes, totally flat squares with 0 db dynamic range, crazy!

Dont think people want to chill out and delve into the subtlties of a track anymore...

they just want something simple & loud that they can sing to while pissed on the weekend

Agreed.

And to the fact that Compression starts well before the mastering stage.

Dynamics I'd assume.. would start at the arranging stage. Most songs these days (good or bad) are less dynamic and are built to be loud and proud.

[deadly_habit]

actually it's over compression that's the issue, dynamic tools like compression and limiting have been used for ages, it's just they get overused now a days and things get ran too hot and hard into them

[travis_baker]

actually it's over compression that's the issue, dynamic tools like compression and limiting have been used for ages, it's just they get overused now a days and things get ran too hot and hard into them

what i dont understand is why? if your an engineer/masterer.. wouldnt they get off on doing the exact oppisite? making things sound the best they can. is there like an illuminatti style thing going on, the higher ups controling the dynamic range of records to subconsiously change our perception on shit....

[_v_]

^^^
maybe your right,

They dont want us to think too much

simple loud flat sounds with not much else happening in between or beneath the surface...

Sounds to keep the sheep in line...

"Nothing happening in this tune, move along! Nothing to hear here"

[Sonika]

How did the loudness war/brickwallint start? Did someone suddenly just say "oh it needs to be louder"?

[deadly_habit]

they do what the clients ask for, and if that client is a major label you're in a pissing match as to who can make the loudest track to be played on the radio and outshine the track before them

loudness is not some new attention grabbing technique, you can even notice it on tv with commercials (though i think there has been some regulation on this), but there are compressed and limited to hell audio wise commercials that DO jump out and grab your attention (and in my case turning my tv down) especially when you compare them to say the level of the tv show you were watching

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if it really interests you google the history of the loudness war and you can see how it's progressed to the state it is now

[Sonika]

Yeah, just wondering why making your tune "louder" makes it any more appealing, especially if it's losing its dynamics and increases ear fatigue....

Doesn't seem like there's any commercial appeal to that

[deadly_habit]

it's peer pressure, this is a great example (also funnily enough i think i have most of the albums mentioned)
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