Prometheus / General scifi discussion

[joeki]

yes as a stand-alone, I'd probably consider giving it a 5/10. The opening sequence is stunning (before it turns into 3D masturbation) and that alone adds an extra point. But I'd call it a confused movie at best. The middle section is very weird and inconsistent. And there's no suspense at all.

And as far as plot mistakes go, without relating them to the other Alien movies, so purely as stand alone:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

I like how at one point, they are smoking weed in their spacesuits, how the panzy ass Biologist suddenly loses all his fear and laughs at an alien. How the geologist with the 3d mapping technology, of all people, is the one to get lost. How the asshole captain who first abandons two people in a cave, later regains his sense of duty and goes all kamikaze with the remaining two characters who add nothing to this story. I like how a girl that just had her boyfriend murdered and was impregnated by an android re-enters the room (leaving an Alien inside the ship nobody even notices) and everybody acts as though nothing has happened, not in the least Noomi herself. I love it how it took the SJ's 33.000 years to manufacture biochemical weapons to destroy Earth. Let's not even get into the whole 100% matching DNA issue. I also love it how inconsitent the number of crew members is and how multi-ton vehicles magically appear and disappear. How SJ's don't need masks to survive on the surface but humans do despite 100% the same DNA. How spacecraft can make noises in space? One of RS stall-mart features in the past. How, in a mere 6 hours, they collectively decided the mission was worthless when they have checked out a fraction of the planet and installation (it's just another tomb). I also would like to know how the Captain came to his quick and unfounded conclusion, the entire premise of the thin plot? Also, lets leave a warning sign on Earth, the underdeveloped planet, NOT to go visit our chemical weapons plant of all places.

There's just too many things wrong with this. They've humanised the Space Jockey, they've made Aliens into a banal scientific experiment gone wrong. They've added a useless religious/philosophical subplot: you either delve deep into that shit or don't go there at all. The plot was too thin to carry the width of the events.
It's just all looks and no content. They should have kept it simple and then you still can have a large dose of mystery (like the original Alien).

END OF MASSIVE SPOILERS

[capo ultra]

guttner

[AntlionUK]

Have to say I agree with alot of what Joeki has said.

Fassbender made it watchable for me, needed more Idris Elba.

[noam]

Idris Elba was terrible... his accent was worse than McNulty's in the wire...

and his part was SO cheesy

he does mack Charlize Theron, in the cheesiest and most ridiculous way tho, so at least he made me laugh

shame it wasn't a comedy

[test_recordings]

I wasn't impressed for anything other than the CGI. The story, acting and (probably due to the inherent nature of the way it's made) the 3D effects were kind of weird, like multilayered holograms.

[Basstronomer]

Went to see it again yesterday, so good!

CGI is very impressive and I think the fact that the movie leaves you with some unanswered questions is what makes it so good, it leaves some space for interpretation, theories etc.

[wolf89]

Watched it yesterday. I'd describe it as a mess. can't say either way it's good or bad but as the bad actually affects the structure and plot of the film I'm gonna have to lean towards the bad. Gonna be some spoilers here a little.

It's full of some awesome moments and great visuals in parts. However it's also sloppily written often in a way that makes the pacing feel all off. The acting is terrible at times and the odd moment comes off as even going as far as being cheesy. It's basically a few really good scenes and pieces of design thrown together with a poorly written script which doesn't quite work somehow. The deaths in it, the abortion scene and shit like seeing the guy having things in his eyes were all really cool. Like it had the potential to work as a horror, but then you have all the crap Joeki said making it fall apart and take you out of the movie. I'm glad I saw it as I did enjoy the gross out bits and it had the odd real good idea but yeah overall it's just a mess and comes across like it might have been better had it just been a music video for Tool.

[joeki]

Prometheus is to science-fiction what Skrillex is to dubstep. I bet you Blade Runner will be up next to slaughter house. In the meantime we shall witness the death of Akira as well.

[NiGHTS_24]

Prometheus is to science-fiction what Skrillex is to dubstep. I bet you Blade Runner will be up next to slaughter house. In the meantime we shall witness the death of Akira as well.

ridley scott was talking about making a new Blade Runner on the radio(bbc 5live ). But i think Prometheus showed that you should never go back.

[noam]

just been a music video for Tool.

EXACTLY what i thought

[cosmic_surgeon]

yes as a stand-alone, I'd probably consider giving it a 5/10. The opening sequence is stunning (before it turns into 3D masturbation) and that alone adds an extra point. But I'd call it a confused movie at best. The middle section is very weird and inconsistent. And there's no suspense at all.

And as far as plot mistakes go, without relating them to the other Alien movies, so purely as stand alone:

MASSIVE SPOILERS:

I like how at one point, they are smoking weed in their spacesuits, how the panzy ass Biologist suddenly loses all his fear and laughs at an alien. (1) How the geologist with the 3d mapping technology, of all people, is the one to get lost. (2) How the asshole captain who first abandons two people in a cave, later regains his sense of duty and goes all kamikaze with the remaining two characters who add nothing to this story. (3) I like how a girl that just had her boyfriend murdered and was impregnated by an android re-enters the room (leaving an Alien inside the ship nobody even notices) and everybody acts as though nothing has happened, not in the least Noomi herself. I love it how it took the SJ's 33.000 years to manufacture biochemical weapons to destroy Earth. (4) Let's not even get into the whole 100% matching DNA issue. I also love it how inconsitent the number of crew members is and how multi-ton vehicles magically appear and disappear. How SJ's don't need masks to survive on the surface but humans do despite 100% the same DNA. How spacecraft can make noises in space? One of RS stall-mart features in the past. How, in a mere 6 hours, they collectively decided the mission was worthless when they have checked out a fraction of the planet and installation (it's just another tomb). (5) I also would like to know how the Captain came to his quick and unfounded conclusion, the entire premise of the thin plot? Also, lets leave a warning sign on Earth, the underdeveloped planet, NOT to go visit our chemical weapons plant of all places.

There's just too many things wrong with this. They've humanised the Space Jockey, they've made Aliens into a banal scientific experiment gone wrong. They've added a useless religious/philosophical subplot: you either delve deep into that shit or don't go there at all. The plot was too thin to carry the width of the events.
It's just all looks and no content. They should have kept it simple and then you still can have a large dose of mystery (like the original Alien).

END OF MASSIVE SPOILERS

SPOILERS AS OWT LAD, DON'T READ IF YOU'VE NOT SEEN

(1) The 3D mapping tech was feeding info back to the ship, not to the Geologist himself (remember the Captain relaying information from his drones to the Geologist himself when they were stuck during the storm?)
(2) He had to leave them because of the storm. There was nothing he could do. Personally I also felt emotionally attuned with his decision when he decided to commit suicide - after everything he'd seen he was just informed by a clearly terrified and heavily traumatised person that the whole world was about to be subjected to the same fate as the infected crew unless he acted.
(3) She doesn't know she was impregnated by David. No one knew he had an agenda except possibly Weyland (hence why she still trusts him in the end) - but if you watch closely when she walks in he frowns when he sees the staples on her chest. She's also crying her eyes out at one stage afterwards and is still visibly disturbed from that point on. Didn't see this as a problem either. Regarding the alien still being on the ship, I think she was convinced it had been purged in the machine. I also got the feeling that she didn't mention it to anybody because it was still a bit of an uncomfortable issue and there were currently bigger cards on the table (like finding out where mankind came from).
(4) Why is the DNA matching an issue?
(5) Yeah it's a quick and unfounded conclusion, but why is this a problem? It might not even be true for all we know - the man can speculate all he likes. There was certainly enough evidence present to support it - just not enough to make it certain.

I thought it was fantastic tbh. The first Alien film really plays on human vulnerability by employing violent sexual/parasitic themes - it explores a very ugly side of sexuality and of the natural world in general. In Prometheus the same vulnerability is explored but it pushes onto an even more sacred place: our ultimate origins. Same sexual/parasitic themes but striking deeper. Was a very intense and epic (in the proper sense of the term) film. I thought it was conceptually brilliant and definitely has the power to move you in fundamental ways. The flamethrower scene was incredibly disturbing. That character had a real megalomaniacal streak (perhaps to be expected for someone whose research was about to answer one of the big questions) and so the notion that he felt it in his being that it was for best to give up his whole existence by being torched alive in front of the woman he loved. Pushed so far he had to give up on his lover and his dream in such a brutal fashion... really powerful. That twisted me up.

[wolf89]

Prometheus is to science-fiction what Skrillex is to dubstep. .

No, Michael Bay's The Island is

[joeki]

We're on totally different pages here Cosmic Surgeon. I felt nothing when watching this movie. I wasn't shocked (it was all too ridiculous to be shocked), I didn't feel any compassion towards any of the characters. It went from one inconsistency to the next.

MORE SPOILERS

> yes, the 3D map was feeding to the ship. But they still had radio AND visual communication with the ship BEFORE the storm. They literally had about 20 minutes to get out if not more. They could have easily been guided out as the rest of the crew, who have to leave the alien ship/cave in a matter of seconds before the storm, did so quite easily. Also why would they return to the place that got them scared shitless before, because now it is a good place to spend the night? There's no justifying all of that in my book unless you are naive. Also where did their vehicles go? They disappeared but they temselves are still in the ship. Perhaps the Jockey woke up and moved them around a bit lol.

> He had communications with them but he decided to leave them alone, despite obviously something being wrong ('glitches', the geologist is supposed to know his equipment isn't he?, no he left them to go dry-hump Charlize Theron, but then regains his humanity. Bear also in mind, Noomy doesn't tell him all of this, he comes to the chemical weapons plant conclusion, all by himself, without leaving the ship once, only to kill a laughable contortionist zombie, who gets let on the ship for no reason...everyone watched him get fried...I would have realised there was something wrong when his signals start spiking up again. Also he seems totally mindless but did have the common sense to go find things to kill on the ship. And what crew was fighting him besides from the two or three known characters. The same people that magically appear when old man Weyland makes his entry.

> She does know Cosmic, I think you missed that part. David tells her, not literally, but with a sarcastic joke. I guess it is unknown that he killed her boyfriend but I believe he gives a hint away of that as well. At any rate, it's a bit absurd and David might react, but none of the other people do, not in any serious way at least.

> There was no evidence present that they were coming to destroy Earth in my opinion. Besides, they had 33.000 years to do that if they wanted to. But I suppose the sequel could clarify that...but I won't be there to see it unless they get another writer.

> DNA Matching issue? Are you kidding me? The movie turns around 300 years of solid darwinistic theory by presenting some goo and then gives the Jockey's 100% the same dna as humans, but let's them breathe on the surface of a planet that is inhabitable for men. (the jockey in the end IS NOT wearing a mask). Also, you mean to tell me the Jockey's haven't evolved ONE bit in BILLIONS of years.

> There's plenty of more stuff: why hasn't Davids body or head moved one bit in ship that's just majorly crashlanded and judging by the Jockey's injury's he got thrown around the same room quite a bit during the crash.

There's tons of other things I could mention here. I'm ok with people enjoying the movie in their own way. But don't try to tell me the plot makes any sense.

EDIT : I WILL ADD SOME MORE :

> David could get into each and every room. He analysed the old languages for that. Which is a vague explanation in itself (how do you get from old languages by man, to the languages by the Space Jockey: it needs more explaining tbh). Couldn't the Advanced Space Jockey simply not develop locks on their doors (to keep the bad aliens away for example).

> One of the Space Jockey's survived in cryo-sleep for Two-thousand years. What was he waiting for? Maybe the sequel could answer that one as well.

> Shaw finds refuge in a small hole that manges to support the weight of a 4 hundred billion ton spaceship crashing down without it caving in. Then in her post surgery state and with 2 minutes of air manages to run several hundred meters across uneven ground and climb a wall all with 30 seconds of air to spare. The SJ is there only seconds later. Without wearing a Helmet. Also, a women who just had major trauma surgery outmanoeuvres a completely fit woman (possibly synthetic) who was doing push-ups coming out of cryo-sleep! "It's the direction in which she runs that matters", lol.

> A 10ft engineer gives birth to a 6ft xeno and he doesn't even have a lump in his stomach. It just comes out of nowhere. Same goes for Roomy, the size of the creature they pull out of here is ridiculous. And how has it continued to grow (without any one noticing again).

> David controls the Alien ship with a synthesizer, a fart cushion and a flute, please....

>What a cynical sequel set-up the ending was. They could have ended the movie on a very depressing yet beautiful note. But no, this lame ending is purely conceived for commercial purposes.


END SPOILERS

[Basstronomer]

edit: can't be arsed

[AntlionUK]

Idris Elba was terrible... his accent was worse than McNulty's in the wire...

and his part was SO cheesy

he does mack Charlize Theron, in the cheesiest and most ridiculous way tho, so at least he made me laugh

shame it wasn't a comedy

He was there for the comic relief man. Shame they didn't explore his character considering his role in the story.

[Hedley King]

SPOILER!!!!:

- Yeah I'm with Joeki on most of that, I know you need to suspend belief a bit for films but there are so many inconsistencies and unbelievable things that it makes it difficult to care much about the characters or story. In something like Alien you can believe in the characters and story, I couldn't with Prometheus although it was an alright film for the visuals and a couple of moments like the abortion.
- The biggest bits I just didn't get were why the two people first ever seeing a live alien were so fine with it and almost stroking the vicious looking thing just after being so shit scared before. And why have the space jockeys told humans 30,000 years ago where their facility for growing bio-weapons to kill them is?

[noam]

Idris Elba was terrible... his accent was worse than McNulty's in the wire...

and his part was SO cheesy

he does mack Charlize Theron, in the cheesiest and most ridiculous way tho, so at least he made me laugh

shame it wasn't a comedy

He was there for the comic relief man. Shame they didn't explore his character considering his role in the story.

yup he was, which is why its such a confused effort of a film... the way it was billed, and the concept behind the film itself goes further than an action film, which can have comedic characters in central roles and still stand up strongly at the end

as it was, in this film we had a KER-AZY geologist who SMOKES WEED IN HIS SPACE SUIT and his buddy-cop partner who's a bit geeky and weird, latches onto him and off they go on an adventure filled with hijinks and mischief!!!

...

and then we have a deeply emotional, serious, philosophical set of characters and plotline that runs tandem to that side of the film. Trying to present dual themes like that in the film seems weird dont you think?? On one hand you have these farcical episodes culminating in gorey deaths that could come straight out of a teen-horror film, and the next you have a metaphorical mutant-alien birth representing the creation of humanity itself backed with theological/religious themes and themes of parenthood/gender/birth and species; it gets kinda confusing.

on paper it looks like it could be an incredible, epic film like Cosmic Surgeon points out, but in execution it just isn't...

there's a reason so many people are calling it confused.

@Antlion - i kinda went off there, this isn't all aimed at you just so you dont think im putting words in your mouth

[cosmic_surgeon]

Man, I wasn't even high when I watched it either. Different pages indeed!

HUGE SPOILERS

edit: I will say though,

A 10ft engineer gives birth to a 6ft xeno and he doesn't even have a lump in his stomach. It just comes out of nowhere. Same goes for Roomy, the size of the creature they pull out of here is ridiculous. And how has it continued to grow (without any one noticing again).

This one didn't even strike me as a problem. I just assumed they grew quite rapidly, and then burst out. The size to which that horrible thing came out of Shaw grew afterwards, I guess gives some confirmation. I don't see why they mightn't just explain it like that.

NA Matching issue? Are you kidding me? The movie turns around 300 years of solid darwinistic theory by presenting some goo and then gives the Jockey's 100% the same dna as humans, but let's them breathe on the surface of a planet that is inhabitable for men. (the jockey in the end IS NOT wearing a mask). Also, you mean to tell me the Jockey's haven't evolved ONE bit in BILLIONS of years.

I assumed that as a species they were extinct, they did mention that. That one was left which had been in some sort of preservation device told me that it wouldn't have evolved. Same concept of a human in cryo, it couldn't evolve 'cause it was in stasis. I don't find it rankles either that the film flies in the face of science and philosophy a lot. It makes a few other philosophical/scientific flaws when it talks about "mind and body" and the fact there's an AI which somehow has the capacity to feel. I guess that's just personal taste. A film's scientific or philosophical accuracy does get on my nerves a bit when it gets really contentious, but it's never decisive. The breathing outside might be a bit of a continuity error though yeah, when do you see it do that though? (I can't rememeber).

Fair enough though mate, I can't answer for every flaw but in the end I just don't feel like they take that much away from it - it still really moved me in a lotta ways.

[AntlionUK]

where's parsons? thought he loved all this 'we came from aliens' shizzle dizzle

[noam]

Man, I wasn't even high when I watched it either. Different pages indeed!

i was drunk the second time... i dont think it makes a difference tho