The future of piracy

[dickman69]

they should just do like ableton and make the "lite" version free

[Kilo Graham]

they should just do like ableton and make the "lite" version free

yeah but the "lite" version still isn't very good.

[jrisreal]

use reaper.

I gave a legit effort in learning reaper the other day with my friend. I came the realization that I love the layout. My issue, though, is that automation is a huge pain in reaper...and that's why I won't be switching. But that is some serious software!

[Kilo Graham]

Yeah and Reaper can be had legitimately for about 50 dollars, which is a reasonable price. I just don't like it much myself, we need more competition in that price range.

[samurai]

No, I'm saying this audio software is relatively new, with most of the stuff being less than 15 years old. There will need to be some adjustments made somewhere. The problem is reconciling the fact that the majority of people who want a DAW, or a synth, or whatever, won't be making money on it. They won't be thinking "well on my next album I'll make all this back and more!" and aren't forced into buying it. We just really want some software. We're not going to be buying the new version of the DAW every 18 months for a few hundred dollars because we can't really afford it. People like Reaper are tapping the market (50 bucks is a good price for software, about the same as a new video game)..

excellent point. one of the main issues revolving around audio software piracy is that "professional products" (which therefore have "professional prices") are being consumed (legally and illegally) by amateurs. it's quite difficult for a lot of people to justify paying a couple of hundred euros on a product which is essentially a hobby item, especially if that item can be gotten quite easily for free.

I've always been an advocate of piracy, as i think it doesn't hurt half as much as people would have you think. But one thing i'll never support is over zealous copy protection.

unfortunately piracy is the one thing that WILL mean over zealous copy protection gets rolled out across all software products in the future.

[SamEyes]

I have to use a pirated version now (go TeAm AiR) cause I lost my disk. I might be able to call them cause I think I still have the box, and obviously I have an account, but I lost the card with the serial so fack

I lost my Logic Pro box with the serial a while back, my MacBook Pro broke recently so I had to get a new one, I managed to get it over from my old hard drive but it needed the serial. All I had to do was ring up Apple and email over some proof of purchase (so lucky Amazon remembers orders for years) and they replaced it. No harm trying to do the same with Cubase!

[SamEyes]

Also, I had cracked versions of Cubase and Reason, which is what I started making music on. Once I got better at it and got a publishing deal advance I purchased over a grands worth of software, money I wouldn't have spent if I hadn't cracked that software in the first place.

My main rule of thumb is that if I make enough money out of it to afford buying it, I will. Maybe a bit of a slanted moral position but I'm okay with it.

[wormcode]

Also, I had cracked versions of Cubase and Reason, which is what I started making music on. Once I got better at it and got a publishing deal advance I purchased over a grands worth of software, money I wouldn't have spent if I hadn't cracked that software in the first place.

My main rule of thumb is that if I make enough money out of it to afford buying it, I will. Maybe a bit of a slanted moral position but I'm okay with it.

I understand the point there, especially a few years back, but with ridiculous amounts of equal quality (sometimes better) open source and freeware alternatives or cheap personal licenses for everything from digital video and image editing, to audio workstations, DJ software, to 3D modelling, it doesn't hold up much these days IMO.

[Kilo Graham]

Also, I had cracked versions of Cubase and Reason, which is what I started making music on. Once I got better at it and got a publishing deal advance I purchased over a grands worth of software, money I wouldn't have spent if I hadn't cracked that software in the first place.

My main rule of thumb is that if I make enough money out of it to afford buying it, I will. Maybe a bit of a slanted moral position but I'm okay with it.

I understand the point there, especially a few years back, but with ridiculous amounts of equal quality (sometimes better) open source and freeware alternatives or cheap personal licenses for everything from digital video and image editing, to audio workstations, DJ software, to 3D modelling, it doesn't hold up much these days IMO.

If that were really true, these companies would be out of business.

[ehbes]

It is true.. Look at gimp, open source version of photoshop, yet photoshop still sells same with open office and Microsoft office

[jrisreal]

Development for OpenOffice has stopped. There's LibreOffice now, though, which is supposedly based off the same source code. In my opinion, GIMP > PS...LibreOffice > Microsoft Office

[ehbes]

[wormcode]

If that were really true, these companies would be out of business.

It's surprising how many people don't know anything about open source or GPL stuff. It's getting more popular, but a few years ago you had to be a real big nerd to know about that kind of stuff. So casual users don't often look past the names like Microsoft or Apple or Adobe etc. I remember when the movie Antitrust came out in about 2001, it caused a huge stir in the open source scene because the film dealt specifically with promoting it to the public. Too bad it sucked.

[Maxxan]

Well it's been proven time and time again in the gaming industry that intrusive DRM does nothing to stop piracy. Many of the best selling titles have little to no DRM, and a lot of the big and popular devs opt for this approach. I know there are several examples of this but I can't remember which they are right now, hopefully someone knows. (Different story with this kind of software though as DAWs etc are a lot more expensive but still)

I bought (most) of the synths I frequently use, but there's just no way I can pay for all the software I need at once. I'll download what I need and if I like it and end up using it I'll pay for it when I can. If I had to buy everything right away I would have gotten nowhere, got bored and quit and have ended up spending a lot less than I have today. So, in my case piracy has earned a lot companies a good deal of money that I wouldn't have spent otherwise.

(I even buy singleplayer games if I like them coz I'm such a fucking nice guy. Most recent purchase was sleeping dogs, sweet game)

[slothrop]

Yeah and Reaper can be had legitimately for about 50 dollars, which is a reasonable price. I just don't like it much myself, we need more competition in that price range.

But a lot of the reason that there isn't more competition in that range is that people use cracked copies of cubase (or FL or whatever) rather than get together 50 dollars for Reaper. In that sense, piracy does help Steinberg - it takes over quite a large chunk of the "skint hobbyist" market and makes it a lot harder for small companies to gradually build a top class Cubase-killer by starting small and cheap and building up.

[ehbes]

And thus drives prices of Those products up because sales are down

[Kilo Graham]

It is true.. Look at gimp, open source version of photoshop, yet photoshop still sells same with open office and Microsoft office

gimp is alright, but it isn't a DAW. Open Office is nearly as good (sometimes better) than microsoft office, mostly old people but microsoft office now, or it comes with your computer or whatever.

If that were really true, these companies would be out of business.

It's surprising how many people don't know anything about open source or GPL stuff. It's getting more popular, but a few years ago you had to be a real big nerd to know about that kind of stuff. So casual users don't often look past the names like Microsoft or Apple or Adobe etc. I remember when the movie Antitrust came out in about 2001, it caused a huge stir in the open source scene because the film dealt specifically with promoting it to the public. Too bad it sucked.

It's not just people not knowing about it. Ask Skrillex if he's ever heard of Reaper, I'll bet he has. He still uses something else.

Yeah and Reaper can be had legitimately for about 50 dollars, which is a reasonable price. I just don't like it much myself, we need more competition in that price range.

But a lot of the reason that there isn't more competition in that range is that people use cracked copies of cubase (or FL or whatever) rather than get together 50 dollars for Reaper. In that sense, piracy does help Steinberg - it takes over quite a large chunk of the "skint hobbyist" market and makes it a lot harder for small companies to gradually build a top class Cubase-killer by starting small and cheap and building up.

I see your reasoning but I'm not sure how far it really goes. In either case, it's on guys like Reaper to figure it out. It's not our job.

And thus drives prices of Those products up because sales are down

Which is why those companies are stupid. When demand goes down, the price should go down.

[samurai]

lads cop on now, open office is shit compared to microsoft office.

[ehbes]

Since when was gimp a DAW?

[deadly_habit]

dongles just slow down crackers a wee bit and piss off the legitimate customers (give it a bit reason 6 will have a dongle emu, and cubase 6 will be up)
in spite of owning a license for cubase from sx2 till 5 (still need to upgrade) i've used cracked versions for the dongle emu because A.) that shit wastes a USB slot & B.) it also wastes cpu cycles more than just a software DRM would
also when it comes to dial home DRM, like NI stuff with service center, I once again own it legit, but use the cracked versions because I hate that shit