Who pimped out the dubstep wikipedia article?

[autonomic]

no worries. it seems like you guys are really on the case.

[selector.dub.u]

Just had a look at the article. I give up. I really can't understand why Riddim.ca keeps getting deleted from there. There's a total of 85 articles on the site, plus 21 artist profiles. Never mind that the Hyperdub articles hosted at Riddim always manage to stay up and that Pearsall's Plasticman interview is used a footnote for the article. I thought we'd discussed that Kaini. Gutterbreakz shouldn't have been deleted either. Yet, Boomkat is there.

While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.

also in North America...
In SF there is Surefire Productions, Narco.hz(juju, djunya, selector dub u, djg, jus wan), Argon(matty g, nick argon roommate), Grime City(cyan, emcee child, subtek, munk, enzyme, 100 spokes, sam supa), Fullmelt(ripple, antiserum, zapper), Surya Dub ( kush arora, kid kameleon, ripley, maneesh the twister)and numerous dj's and producers. In LA there is SMOG , Pure Filth and Nasty Sonix. there are also a lot of Dj's and producers active in LA and in SD there quite a few producers..
Vaccine, Intex, Echo Wanderer and Misk off the top of my head.

In Portland Dj Monkeytek...
In Seattle there are is an active dubstep community that has regular dances.

So many people participating in dj'ing, producing and releasing dubstep on
the westcoast of the US...

Oh shoot I can't forget the midwest either, with Dj Shiva, Municiple, etc... you guys need to help me here...
and atlanta and denver, houston (south3rn, gritsy)...
etc...

[blackdown]

Autonomic, I mean...it's Wikipedia. Most of it's terrible as a matter of course. We do our best but 1) we can basically only write things that have already been stated in the media

I know Autonomic's said this below but i need to re-iterate the point here. Things are not only facts as and when the mainstream media cover them: wikipedia should be more flexible than that, not least because the mainstream media looks to it for facts.

In addition to this the mainstream media pieces quoted in the intro are four years late - which is an innacuracy. I was covering El-B and Zed Bias in 2000 in The Face and other mainstream magazines. These producers are the foundation of the scene and the wikipedia article should acredit their pioneering work when it happened not when The Telegraph/Indie etc decided to wake up: this ability to move quickly is what makes Wikipedia different to the Encylopedia Britannica et al.

[pdomino]

Love Wiki, its nice to 'contribute'

[zeibura]

Whoa, seems I should have been here a while ago but got delayed by Glade Festival.

Things are not only facts as and when the mainstream media cover them: wikipedia should be more flexible than that

This is by no means what Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources entails. Quoting from Wikipedia:Reliable sources, Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand. Therefore under Wikipedia guidelines, Martin Clark's columns on Pitchfork are far better sources than the national press, who have no relation to any particular subject at hand. With regards to the IoS quote, I must say I agree that this is misleading, as a genre name does not have to be covered by a newspaper to make it official.

As for the previous links issue, I'll read into this when I have more energy, but from what I can see it is a bit of a misuse of the word "spam", which along with "nonsense" and "trolling" makes one of the three most over-used words on Wikipedia. Personally I think the blacksoundboy blog is worthy of a link, the guideline that deals with links to forums and blogs states that they should "generally be avoided", which means unless they are useful, which this one undoubtedly would be. Someone recently suggested that the link to dubstepforum should be removed in conjunction with this guideline, which I argued against for the same reasons.

Also,

what i don't understand about the wikipedia system is that a genre like RNB, which is nearly 50 years old can still be edited?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

but, islam is locked from redefinition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

it can't be one set of rules for certain subject matter, and another set for everything else. it's a bit ridiculous.

"Locked" articles on Wikipedia are generally only protected due to heavy vandalism. These articles can be edited by users with an account more than 4 days old. Occasionally an article will be protected from editing completely to resolve a dispute over the content, but this tends to last no longer than a few hours or however long it takes to cool both sides of the conflict down.

Also, R&B may be 50 years old, but the R&B article is nowhere near finished. For a start, someone needs to beef that one up by adding samples, pictures and more citations

Thanks to everyone here for your comments, they've been useful and will no doubt help us in getting the article front paged, and thanks to Blackdown for all the work you initially did on the article.

[kaini]

Whoa, seems I should have been here a while ago but got delayed by Glade Festival.

hope you didn't get too muddy/drowned, man
thanks for explaining some stuff about wiki policy (which i find verrrrry constraining and flawed at times) that i was too lazy to elaborate on.

as much as i like contributing, i'd encourage any wiki editor to have a good browse of http://www.wikitruth.info

and yeah, a peer review from the dubstep community is exactly what the article needs, as you stated.

Personally I think the blacksoundboy blog is worthy of a link, the guideline that deals with links to forums and blogs states that they should "generally be avoided", which means unless they are useful, which this one undoubtedly would be. Someone recently suggested that the link to dubstepforum should be removed in conjunction with this guideline, which I argued against for the same reasons.

i'm saving this quote from an interview with jimbo 'mr wiki' wales for the next inevitable time there's an editwar on the article over links....

You know, an example of overly, an overly broad principle would be you know, a very simple statement that blogs are not valid sources.

Well, at first glance a lot of people would say that sounds about right. I mean anybody can write a blog and post anything they want -- is that really a valid source? But then again once you start getting into the nuisances of it, you say well, John Edwards is blogging. He's a famous politician and if he writes something about his own views on his own blog, it sure sounds like a pretty good source for what his own views are.

And, you know, on the other hand a random blog on MySpace offering some opinion doesn't seem like much of a source for anything. So when you have these attempts to write down the principles in an overly broad way it doesn't really work.

[zeibura]

And this isn't even sourcing we're talking about here, it's just a list of relevant links. I think there's a real prejudice against external links in the Wiki community because of the fact that they attract spam, which is silly really as all you need to do to fight this is watch an article and remove spam links as they're added. To back this up, consider that there are some further reading sections which go on forever, hell, there are even articles devoted to lists of hard resources (example) but an article comprised entirely of a list of external links would be deletable without further discussion.

[kaini]

And this isn't even sourcing we're talking about here, it's just a list of relevant links. I think there's a real prejudice against external links in the Wiki community because of the fact that they attract spam, which is silly really as all you need to do to fight this is watch an article and remove spam links as they're added. To back this up, consider that there are some further reading sections which go on forever, hell, there are even articles devoted to lists of hard resources (example) but an article comprised entirely of a list of external links would be deletable without further discussion.

i feel your pain. i was involved in a reeeealllly big, long, controversial AfD regarding ONE link in ONE article on wiki that left me disillusioned with the whole site for a long time. there are people like you and i who have watchlists, and then there are editors who camp on articles for months on end, reverting edits in a way that is not POV pushing, but still pushes their POV by lack of inclusion rather than by inclusion.

[bombaman]

Just had a look at the article. I give up. I really can't understand why Riddim.ca keeps getting deleted from there. There's a total of 85 articles on the site, plus 21 artist profiles. Never mind that the Hyperdub articles hosted at Riddim always manage to stay up and that Pearsall's Plasticman interview is used a footnote for the article. I thought we'd discussed that Kaini. Gutterbreakz shouldn't have been deleted either. Yet, Boomkat is there.

While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.

also in North America...
In SF there is Surefire Productions, Narco.hz(juju, djunya, selector dub u, djg, jus wan), Argon(matty g, nick argon roommate), Grime City(cyan, emcee child, subtek, munk, enzyme, 100 spokes, sam supa), Fullmelt(ripple, antiserum, zapper), Surya Dub ( kush arora, kid kameleon, ripley, maneesh the twister)and numerous dj's and producers. In LA there is SMOG , Pure Filth and Nasty Sonix. there are also a lot of Dj's and producers active in LA and in SD there quite a few producers..
Vaccine, Intex, Echo Wanderer and Misk off the top of my head.

In Portland Dj Monkeytek...
In Seattle there are is an active dubstep community that has regular dances.

So many people participating in dj'ing, producing and releasing dubstep on
the westcoast of the US...

Oh shoot I can't forget the midwest either, with Dj Shiva, Municiple, etc... you guys need to help me here...
and atlanta and denver, houston (south3rn, gritsy)...
etc...

fuck it, we oughta make our own north american dubstep wiki article!!

look at all the artists!! those are both pretty sick lists!

[kaini]

i'd go further - wikia (as opposed to wiki) is open to supplying resources to any project that it deems worthwhile... 'step is big enough that i'm fairly sure that it would be deemed worth a wiki of its own over there if we had a bunch of editors willing to put in the time.

[moldy]

Just had a look at the article. I give up. I really can't understand why Riddim.ca keeps getting deleted from there. There's a total of 85 articles on the site, plus 21 artist profiles. Never mind that the Hyperdub articles hosted at Riddim always manage to stay up and that Pearsall's Plasticman interview is used a footnote for the article. I thought we'd discussed that Kaini. Gutterbreakz shouldn't have been deleted either. Yet, Boomkat is there.

While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.

also in North America...
In SF there is Surefire Productions, Narco.hz(juju, djunya, selector dub u, djg, jus wan), Argon(matty g, nick argon roommate), Grime City(cyan, emcee child, subtek, munk, enzyme, 100 spokes, sam supa), Fullmelt(ripple, antiserum, zapper), Surya Dub ( kush arora, kid kameleon, ripley, maneesh the twister)and numerous dj's and producers. In LA there is SMOG , Pure Filth and Nasty Sonix. there are also a lot of Dj's and producers active in LA and in SD there quite a few producers..
Vaccine, Intex, Echo Wanderer and Misk off the top of my head.

In Portland Dj Monkeytek...
In Seattle there are is an active dubstep community that has regular dances.

So many people participating in dj'ing, producing and releasing dubstep on
the westcoast of the US...

Oh shoot I can't forget the midwest either, with Dj Shiva, Municiple, etc... you guys need to help me here...
and atlanta and denver, houston (south3rn, gritsy)...
etc...

fuck it, we oughta make our own north american dubstep wiki article!!

look at all the artists!! those are both pretty sick lists!

Myself and Grapes (Heavy Pressure Recordings) should be listed as well.

[selector.dub.u]

Just had a look at the article. I give up. I really can't understand why Riddim.ca keeps getting deleted from there. There's a total of 85 articles on the site, plus 21 artist profiles. Never mind that the Hyperdub articles hosted at Riddim always manage to stay up and that Pearsall's Plasticman interview is used a footnote for the article. I thought we'd discussed that Kaini. Gutterbreakz shouldn't have been deleted either. Yet, Boomkat is there.

While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.

also in North America...
In SF there is Surefire Productions, Narco.hz(juju, djunya, selector dub u, djg, jus wan), Argon(matty g, nick argon roommate), Grime City(cyan, emcee child, subtek, munk, enzyme, 100 spokes, sam supa), Fullmelt(ripple, antiserum, zapper), Surya Dub ( kush arora, kid kameleon, ripley, maneesh the twister)and numerous dj's and producers. In LA there is SMOG , Pure Filth and Nasty Sonix. there are also a lot of Dj's and producers active in LA and in SD there quite a few producers..
Vaccine, Intex, Echo Wanderer and Misk off the top of my head.

In Portland Dj Monkeytek...
In Seattle there are is an active dubstep community that has regular dances.

So many people participating in dj'ing, producing and releasing dubstep on
the westcoast of the US...

Oh shoot I can't forget the midwest either, with Dj Shiva, Municiple, etc... you guys need to help me here...
and atlanta and denver, houston (south3rn, gritsy)...
etc...

fuck it, we oughta make our own north american dubstep wiki article!!

look at all the artists!! those are both pretty sick lists!

Myself and Grapes (Heavy Pressure Recordings) should be listed as well.

absolutely!

[autonomic]

I've been meaning to do a piece on the development of the North American scene for a long time for Riddim.ca. Maybe now is a good time to get to work on that, do some interviews, etc. Then the Wiki page will have something to reference for a section on North America.

Might take a little while because I want to do it right, maybe in two parts, so hold tight. I'll start contacting people shortly.

[abZ]

For me personally dubstep basically doesn't exist outside the internet (apart from this, thanks abZ), but I realize it's not like that everywhere.

Your welcome.

[loetech]

I've been meaning to do a piece on the development of the North American scene for a long time for Riddim.ca. Maybe now is a good time to get to work on that, do some interviews, etc. Then the Wiki page will have something to reference for a section on North America.

Might take a little while because I want to do it right, maybe in two parts, so hold tight. I'll start contacting people shortly.

ah man, do it! that'd be awesome!

we're all holding it down here pretty nicely now

[kuma]

I've been meaning to do a piece on the development of the North American scene for a long time for Riddim.ca. Maybe now is a good time to get to work on that, do some interviews, etc. Then the Wiki page will have something to reference for a section on North America.

Might take a little while because I want to do it right, maybe in two parts, so hold tight. I'll start contacting people shortly.

Good man, I have been thinking of that for an article for Rinse but have had no time.

your chest.