anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

[breakitdown]

Not really sure of the legal aspect, however seeing as its on topic thought I'd post the Liam Howlett sample story

"Climbatize" samples a horn riff from "The Horn Track" by Egyptian Empire, the stage name of electronic musician Tim Taylor.

The main drum loop was sampled from "Air Drums from Outer Bongolia" by English electronic duo The Jedi Knights; Liam Howlett sampled the drums without the group's permission, and The Jedi Knights threatened to sue The Prodigy.

However, Howlett already knew that The Jedi Knights themselves had sampled the drums from an older track entitled "Bongolia" by American funk group Incredible Bongo Band without permission; XL Recordings, the Prodigy's record label, bought the rights to the Incredible Bongo Band track and threatened to sue The Jedi Knights.

The media coverage cornered around the event attracted film producer George Lucas, who sued The Jedi Knights for taking their stage name from the Star Wars term "Jedi Knight", which Lucas created.

[Ocelots Revolver]

^ I'm not sure if that story makes me feel jubilant that the Jedi Knights got trashed for claiming something they didn't own, or that it makes me sick because of how gay everyone is with lawsuits. I mean, they go sued for having a Star Wars term? No way....

[JBE]

Not really sure of the legal aspect, however seeing as its on topic thought I'd post the Liam Howlett sample story

"Climbatize" samples a horn riff from "The Horn Track" by Egyptian Empire, the stage name of electronic musician Tim Taylor.

The main drum loop was sampled from "Air Drums from Outer Bongolia" by English electronic duo The Jedi Knights; Liam Howlett sampled the drums without the group's permission, and The Jedi Knights threatened to sue The Prodigy.

However, Howlett already knew that The Jedi Knights themselves had sampled the drums from an older track entitled "Bongolia" by American funk group Incredible Bongo Band without permission; XL Recordings, the Prodigy's record label, bought the rights to the Incredible Bongo Band track and threatened to sue The Jedi Knights.

The media coverage cornered around the event attracted film producer George Lucas, who sued The Jedi Knights for taking their stage name from the Star Wars term "Jedi Knight", which Lucas created.

Oh that is.....sad. This actually kinda goes to show just how much attention is paid to this kinda stuff to be honest. I mean The Jedi Knights released "May The Funk Be With You" in 95. If I'm not mistaken it's actually a pretty well known track throughout the electronic music community. It took 3 years for George Lucas to find out and the only reason he found out was because it turned into an actual court case.

If you listen to any of The Jedi Knights songs you can actually hear that they sampled the crap out of the Incredible Bongo Band. Not to mention numerous hip-hop tracks that were relevant during that time.

I'm actually quite disappointed now cause I really liked their music. I didn't find there stuff till quite a bit later when I really started getting into electronic music. I don't want to say I looked up to them cause they aren't anywhere near my favorite group but they were definitely influential in my decision to want to make electronic music, even if in a small way. I don't know why I never heard of this before but I kinda wish I had. I probably wouldn't have been as inclined to buy their music due to this level of hypocrisy.

[Maxxan]

Really interesting thread. There's a pretty good plugin for pianos called TruePianos that you might look into (has a free 40 day trial if you don't wanna buy it). Let us hear the results man, good luck!

[DubMikey]

I'd be surprised if they could actually do something about you giving it out for free, as I am pretty sure they can't since you are not profitting from it.

[jrisreal]

I'd be surprised if they could actually do something about you giving it out for free, as I am pretty sure they can't since you are not profitting from it.

But then it would be illegal free distribution of somebody else's property, yeah?

[DubMikey]

I'd be surprised if they could actually do something about you giving it out for free, as I am pretty sure they can't since you are not profitting from it.

But then it would be illegal free distribution of somebody else's property, yeah?

Never did I call myself an expert on the subject, hence, "I am pretty sure", not, "I am positive".

[jrisreal]

Im not an expert either. No worries

[wormcode]

Yeah they could definitely sue you for a free track, but that costs a lot of money so it wouldn't be as likely unless there's some vendetta going on. Didn't George Lucas also attempt to sue Jedi Mind Tricks? Also sued some company called Jedi Mind. He also put restrictions on Mel Brooks when making Spaceballs, and said no merchandise or money could be made from the Spaceballs name. Lucas is a tnuc, and what's funnier is Star Wars and THX are pretty much rip offs of Dune & Nineteen Eighty Four.

[mks]

Luke Skyywalker from 2 Live Crew got sued by George Lucas too.

Mark Pritchard from Jedi Knights went on to release records as Troubleman, Harmonic 313, Africa Hitech etc, as you may or may not know.

[cheshirebeats]

Just re-create the melody. No one can prove you copied it. Just say you played your piano and got this melody in your head.
If they sue you, ask them to prove they own that melody/ keys. If they play that track and say they have used it before you, then just say maybe they have copied it from someone else.

Wu-Tang Clan did this with a track, they took the guitar part and vocals from "While my Guitar Gently Weeps", changed the hook to "all while my heart gently weeps", and then sampled that.
I mean maybe they could have cleared the sample but its possible they saved themselves a good deal of money by re-recording it.
Pretty sure a lot of rap labels do this kind of thing when they know they can't clear something.
Imagine being able to bring a band in for a few hours and get enough good recordings to avoid having to avoid ever having problems with the samples. Its a great idea.

[ill mindset]

Id put it on as many sites as possible for free download and email them all the links just in spite. probably paying with fire that though haha.

Or he could be an adult, take the hit and scrap it or re-record the part for himself.

so now im an adult, people can treat me however they want and i will just take it, because i am now an adult.

sounds fun

I think the point is, just because you "ask" (you weren't asking as you had already made the track. You were telling them) to use the sample doesn't mean they have to say yes. In fact, unless you know them or they have heard of you, they will most likely say no. You have no right to be spiteful. Write your own song and you'll never have these troubles. Not trying to rain on your parade but that's just the way it is.

[NinjaEdit]

Don't be scared; you'll just have to give it out free or record the piano yourself, note for note and switch a note or two.

Seven notes in a row is plagiarism. You still need permission to re-record the part.

so now im an adult, people can treat me however they want and i will just take it, because i am now an adult.

If you want to be independant, you'll have to be responsible for your actions.

Copyright law (at least in the UK) means you cant even copy it if noone else hears it. You do not have the right to copy it, literally.

In austrlia, you can burn a CD you own and listen to it with a friend, but if they listen without you, it's an infringement of copyright.

Not trying to sound like Mr Argumentative... But didn't Joe Satriani try suing Coldplay for stealing the general chord progressions and melodies for Viva La Vida? To be fair I didn't hear that he won his case so maybe he had no grounds.

It settled. You don't have copyright over a chord progression.

Not really sure of the legal aspect, however seeing as its on topic thought I'd post the Liam Howlett sample story

"Climbatize" samples a horn riff from "The Horn Track" by Egyptian Empire, the stage name of electronic musician Tim Taylor.

The main drum loop was sampled from "Air Drums from Outer Bongolia" by English electronic duo The Jedi Knights; Liam Howlett sampled the drums without the group's permission, and The Jedi Knights threatened to sue The Prodigy.

However, Howlett already knew that The Jedi Knights themselves had sampled the drums from an older track entitled "Bongolia" by American funk group Incredible Bongo Band without permission; XL Recordings, the Prodigy's record label, bought the rights to the Incredible Bongo Band track and threatened to sue The Jedi Knights.

The media coverage cornered around the event attracted film producer George Lucas, who sued The Jedi Knights for taking their stage name from the Star Wars term "Jedi Knight", which Lucas created.

George Lucas tried to sue the station for Battlestar Gallictica, who countered sued for brrowing from westerns.

[goldengrime]

There's a lot of mixed up shit on here that people must be crazy to believe. I mean I thought that everybody knew that it was illeagal to sample anything from a track. It doesn't matter if its going out free or never even gonna get finished, its there. So for as for people saying words like 'fact' then contradicting themselves its obvious they're just talking about stuff they know nothing about (I'm not trying to pull anyone down or be a dick but you shoudlnt tell someone somethings a fact when its not lol).

As for just playing the notes in or whatever 'because that's not covered by copyright' is more bullshit lol

On a practical standpoint of what's actually done varies like anything in life. Dr Dre and Eminem have been sued a few times for illeagal sample use as with some others on the hip hop scene. The Amenbreak was sample from an old record Amen Brother as I'm sure many of you already know and those guys to this day didn't receive any royalties from sample companies or artists but this was basically coz they didn't give a shit or quite possibly they didn't know about it which I'm sure could have been a different story if they were asked for permission.

There's many films and songs been sampled but the original guys might never hear anything about it. I've sampled vocals for bootleg remixes etc as im sure many have but I'm a million miles away from the original artist. You've made a big mistake by asking them as we know. So I would just simply change the sample for something original. I also think the fine is a loada bollocks lol seeing as you asked the band, the band don't even own the recording for the fuckin thing! Lol

[Kilo Graham]

There's a lot of mixed up shit on here that people must be crazy to believe. I mean I thought that everybody knew that it was illeagal to sample anything from a track. It doesn't matter if its going out free or never even gonna get finished, its there. So for as for people saying words like 'fact' then contradicting themselves its obvious they're just talking about stuff they know nothing about (I'm not trying to pull anyone down or be a dick but you shoudlnt tell someone somethings a fact when its not lol).

As for just playing the notes in or whatever 'because that's not covered by copyright' is more bullshit lol

On a practical standpoint of what's actually done varies like anything in life. Dr Dre and Eminem have been sued a few times for illeagal sample use as with some others on the hip hop scene. The Amenbreak was sample from an old record Amen Brother as I'm sure many of you already know and those guys to this day didn't receive any royalties from sample companies or artists but this was basically coz they didn't give a shit or quite possibly they didn't know about it which I'm sure could have been a different story if they were asked for permission.

for someone who talks shit about knowledge you sure are ignorant

[NinjaEdit]

Then do him a favour and enlighten him. I think everything he said was correct.

[JTMMusicuk]

yeah he's pretty much right apart from saying you can sample any track because obviously not every track is copyrighted

you can play the notes in yourself and recreate the sample but you have to pay a small liscense fee for it to be legal

[jeer]

yeah, lol i could remake it easy, and have more control with how it fits in the mix. but whats the point? id still be "stealing" it

stuff it.... i think thats what ill do today... i got a nice new synth plug that i only been messing about with, may as well put it to use.

then ital be an original work, no hassle or legal fees, and can go on my first LP no problem.


cheers again for the responces peoples!

Definitely re-record it, make it sound a lot better with some verb and delay - make it mad bumping.

Step 2: When it's finished, send it him and ask him what he thinks. Follow up with a umadbro?

[JTMMusicuk]

seconds of searching google give you the answer

Many of us like using samples from existing records in our music, but as you probably know, if you do, the thorny issue of music copyright comes into play.

One solution to the problem is to sack off the original sample and make a recreation instead. These so-called 'replays' are essentially super-accurate cover versions that are practically indistinguishable from the real thing.

If a sample is 'replayed', then none of the original performers have to be paid, and the licence to use just the composition is comparatively cheap - it's no more expensive than licensing a cover version. Simply apply for a mechanical licence from the MCPS, letting the publisher know that you intend to create a replay.

http://beta.musicradar.com/tuition/tech ... ips-555535

[SamEyes]

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

My mindset when it comes to sampling/remixing things is just do it if it sounds good. Upload it, as long as you don't do anything blatantly illegal like attempting to sell it without permission, you should be fine. No-one's gonna bother suing someone over something unless they're realistically losing a lot of money from it.