gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[didi]

I've been trying to find somekind of answer to this, but i haven't found.
What level the midbass should peak? I know theres no exact rules, but some rough level?
Lets say my kick peaks -10db and snare -12db, the whole drumbuss it set to peak round -8,-10db

Peak values are meaningless. Only RMS values correspond to the perceived volume.

not going against what your saying but a legit question, how does one mix knowing this, because the peaks are what spike the meters and make them go over 0. i know you can turn all the tracks down to avoid that, but when mastering time comes and you gotta bring the levels up, is it ok if all those peaks get compressed alot? isnt that taking away the transients? because if i mix going by the RMS, (how i hear it), i feel like i would be using alot of compression. is that how people make tracks insanely loud? by mixing by RMS? and ignoring the spiking meters becuase the spikes are gonna get compressed anyways?

You can ignore peaks if you've left enough room, by using a sensible reference level. The purpose of mixing isn't to get things loud, don't worry about that, the mastering engineer can take care of that. You shouldn't have any clipping if you've set your levels sensibly.

[deamonds]

Guys just got a quick question, i’m putting the finishing touches to an EP before it goes for mastering...just wanted to ask a one with regards to my premaster.

(Btw this is deep house, not dubstep, but this thread has some good tips)

I’ve chosen to use some really soft textures, drums & bass in my tune and it in its entirety, it’s peaking at just over half the db meter on ableton. It sounds really nice, however it is quiet, which is fine imo...as it’s a premaster, so they engineer will have alot of headroom to work with when he then goes to master it.

Now is this a correct assumption, or am I talking shit and have got this all wrong???...I’m hoping when it gets mastered it will bring the elements to life...or shall I work on bringing the elements of the track up some more...there’s no problem in that, it’s just it sounds really good as it is, just a tad quiet (which i realise is okay for a premaster no?)

Would really appreciate your assistance on this one...does macc still post here? If so you’re a legend and your advice got my tunes sounding great, so thanks for that.

[skimpi]

See, I still get confused with summat similar, like not soft textures, but with sub, like when I mix I try to get the bass nice and loud and I would want it, but then when coming to self mastering/limiting, I cant push it that hard because of the loud sub, but then there are mastered tracks with huge subs that seem to overpower other elements in the track. Is this a similar thing, where I should let the sub sit lower in the mix, but when 'mastering' it will be brought up to dominate the track.

[macc]

Hello all, popped my head in here for the first time in a while. Been on holiday, been EXTREMELY busy too... keep em peeled

Anyway hope y'all are well

in its entirety, it’s peaking at just over half the db meter on ableton. It sounds really nice, however it is quiet, which is fine imo...

Mix that shizzle down. It doesn't hurt to turn your speakers up to make sure it sounds nice loud as well though

[elmacaco]

Wow this has been the most useful thread I have ever read. After the first 10 pages I went to a track and it all clicked.
Anyone not getting it should re read the first 10 pages. After the 20th page the signal to noise gets high because people post without having read and understood Macc's pearls of wisdom. Also gets full of "what's wrong with my track?" or other off subject talk. Still in the last 40 pages there are some good tips, but 1-20 should improve your mixing.

Also this article helped me alot, thanks to who posted it.

http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thin ... q-tutorial

Big up Macc for the education. I've Ben doing it wrong for a long time!!

Respect!

[mthrfnk]

Never posted in this thread, but have used some of it's advice.

What are your guys thoughts on bouncing your track to stems (bass, drums, piano, leads, fx etc) and then remixing it in a new project?

[bkwsk]

What are your guys thoughts on bouncing your track to stems (bass, drums, piano, leads, fx etc) and then remixing it in a new project?

I tend to do that all the time nowadays, mainly because of CPU usage. A lot of the times, instead of resampling everything, I tend just to push CPU a little too far then just bounce everything and mix it in a different project. A problem (if you use Ableton) can sometimes come up if you use a lot of reverb/delays on sends and stuff like that, but that can be worked around. Just make sure you export your stems at least at 44.1kHz/24 bit so the mixing processing doesn't hurt the quality of the sound. Most of the times I'll just go with 48kHz/32bit, just to be sure (but that's very hard on your hard drive, so be cautious if you're exporting 42 tracks).

[elyhess]

Hey guys just a quick thought popped in my head. I'm pretty sure i'm in the right place but i was wondering at what frequency (if any), do you cut your bassline's lower frequencies.

ex: I have my sub cut at 60 hz and i have my kick at about 70 hz. In my song, i've noticed that the drums get SLIGHTLY quieter when the electro-basslines come in. So should i cut my electro basslines at like 75 hz? I just worry about losing too much sound out of the electro-bassline's. What do you guys think?

[twilitez]

What is slightly? If your losing less then 2db when both elements are playing chances are 95% of your audience wont hear it.

[elyhess]

What is slightly? If your losing less then 2db when both elements are playing chances are 95% of your audience wont hear it.

good point

[Vizor]

guys im just saying what i have read from this forum but if you have a limiter on your mix ANY sound is going to loose the best potential for having the best dynamics because limiters do that just like peaking the limiter does aid the peaking problem but does still screw you mix up if you are not careful. If i am wrong correct me please but just flop on izotope ozone and you should be fine. it is your complete master channel vst suite and does a good job for just being one vst. I preferably would say make your kick and snare hit up to -6 db's by the way. If i'm wrong and im talking bla bla im sorry .

[mthrfnk]

guys im just saying what i have read from this forum but if you have a limiter on your mix ANY sound is going to loose the best potential for having the best dynamics because limiters do that just like peaking the limiter does aid the peaking problem but does still screw you mix up if you are not careful. If i am wrong correct me please but just flop on izotope ozone and you should be fine. it is your complete master channel vst suite and does a good job for just being one vst. I preferably would say make your kick and snare hit up to -6 db's by the way. If i'm wrong and im talking bla bla im sorry .

This confused me.

[AxeD]

I'd give feedback if it weren't for the fact that I didn't understand any of that

[therapist]

guys im just saying what i have read from this forum but if you have a limiter on your mix ANY sound is going to loose the best potential for having the best dynamics because limiters do that just like peaking the limiter does aid the peaking problem but does still screw you mix up if you are not careful. If i am wrong correct me please but just flop on izotope ozone and you should be fine. it is your complete master channel vst suite and does a good job for just being one vst. I preferably would say make your kick and snare hit up to -6 db's by the way. If i'm wrong and im talking bla bla im sorry .

This is like a condensed version of all the wrong stuff in this thread.

Two elements at -6 is all your headroom gone. If your track contains only kicks and snares (there's probably a sub-genre for this by now) then fair enough.

[Skeemstep]

Can't wait to try this out. Have definitely noticed a difference in using more correct gain structure vs trying to get a tune to sound like an already mastered tune. Huge appreciation for the information!

[NinjaEdit]

Sounding like a mastered tune before mastering is good. Just reference at an equal apparent volume, and don't attempt the loudness of that commercial master, ever.

[swerver]

Learnt a lot from this thread. Massive thanks to macc for his free advice - helped me a lot!

[Krana]

Sorry if it isn't really answering your question, but -3 is way too high.

Remember that 6dB is half. So if you have one element at -6, that is half your headroom gone. Two elements at -6dB each = all your headroom gone. Having the drums at -3 will leave you fighting against clipping and struggling to keep everything down and under control.

Rather, set your drums for *around* -8 / -10 (ie, a bit less than half). The bass - if we are talking a pure sine sub - would probably sit best a dB or two below that, any distorted/fullband bass sounds should be effectively treated as different entities and mixed appropriately (due to Fletcher Munson).

This leaves you with a few dB headroom, and everything else is just parsley. No more fighting anything, you *will* get repeatable and consistent levels in your mixes, and better mixes as a result.

Hey, just a question. If for eksample you put the drums around -8/-10 , sub bass at 1, or 2 lower. And you say 'treat any dissorted/fullband basses as different entries and mixed appropriately'. Where in dB would that be then? like -15 or so.. I know your not supposed to follow numbers like some kind of rule, but just for eksample? If you have a sub bass going hard at -12 dB, drums at around-9 , then the disorted dubstep basslines shuold be lower? Usually i mix growls/dissorted basses around -12, and sub at -15. maybe i should turn it around=)
Thank you for allready helping me with your super answers here on forum.

[Krana]

Now you got me reading all about the Fletcher Munson curves here Interesting stuff.

[Sonika]

^this guys got it right! finally someone digs deeper by reading these threads rather than just posting stupid topics on the production board