ANTI-WAR DUB - IN THE STREETS

[necta selecta]

I think they'll rebuild it fine themselves over time - lets not forget that iraq is on the site of the beginnings of civilisation.

Troups = bad, pullout = good. Just because the region won't miraculously transform into the garden of eden when the troups leave isn't really a reason to stay and continue f*cking the place over.

The fact that the majority of indiginous population wants them out as well as the majority of US and UK citizens AND the military all want out seems like a fairly good reason to get outta there to me.

Then see how the dust settles. It may be far from perfect but it's a start. There are civil wars and evil dictators all over the world that "we" could be doing something about that don't even make the news. It's not our business.

[metalboxproducts]

I think they'll rebuild it fine themselves over time - lets not forget that iraq is on the site of the beginnings of civilisation.

Troups = bad, pullout = good. Just because the region won't miraculously transform into the garden of eden when the troups leave isn't really a reason to stay and continue f*cking the place over.

The fact that the majority of indiginous population wants them out as well as the majority of US and UK citizens AND the military all want out seems like a fairly good reason to get outta there to me.

Then see how the dust settles. It may be far from perfect but it's a start. There are civil wars and evil dictators all over the world that "we" could be doing something about that don't even make the news. It's not our business.

We did fuck it up though so i think we should at least offer economic assistance. I don't know. Going into a country,screwing it. And then leaving because we couldn't achieve are goal seems to be at slightly shit.

[metalboxproducts]

Yeah your right. Leave them to it to sort out. It'll at least make good news footage.

[umkhontowesizwe]

i think most people tend to overlook the massive impact radical Islam is having on the situation. as bad as saddam was, he held shit together and would not tolerate any of the religious extremism which is rampant in iraq right now.....much like musharraf in pakistan. it's not ideal, but lesser of two evils and all that.

bottom line, bush and blair fucked up, religion is bad, and for fuck sake islam is not the 'religion of peace'. i'm sick of hearing this.

[westernsynthetics]

I'm pretty sure i gave you my address a while back and i'm almost certain it was London Uk.

shit..of course! The Vinyl is still on its way btw its taking longer than expected to get sorted

[westernsynthetics]

i think most people tend to overlook the massive impact radical Islam is having on the situation. as bad as saddam was, he held shit together and would not tolerate any of the religious extremism which is rampant in iraq right now.....much like musharraf in pakistan. it's not ideal, but lesser of two evils and all that.

bottom line, bush and blair fucked up, religion is bad, and for fuck sake islam is not the 'religion of peace'. i'm sick of hearing this.

Your racisim here is quite disgusting.

There are millions of peaceful Mulisim people the world over. It is only an extremist minority who choose to make random acts of violence with the aim to acheive emacipation. The extremist Islamic groups are for a religious revolution from above. Rather than a workers revolution from below. Instead of advocating mass strike action, they advocate random acts of violence which as we all know acheives nothing.

As for the Iraq insurgency...what would you do if you were occupied by a foreign force?

Rather than Islamic extremisim or Islam in general, people tend to overlook the impact Imperialist Capitalism is having on the situation. Islam is certainly not being overlooked. In Australia, The UK & US Draconian Anti-terror laws have been passed paving the way for an Orwellian nightmare. These laws are not aimed at the anglo population, they are being used to opress the Muslim polulation at home.

Believe me, Islam is high on the agenda for imperialist governments.

[umkhontowesizwe]

i think most people tend to overlook the massive impact radical Islam is having on the situation. as bad as saddam was, he held shit together and would not tolerate any of the religious extremism which is rampant in iraq right now.....much like musharraf in pakistan. it's not ideal, but lesser of two evils and all that.

bottom line, bush and blair fucked up, religion is bad, and for fuck sake islam is not the 'religion of peace'. i'm sick of hearing this.

Your racisim here is quite disgusting.

There are millions of peaceful Mulisim people the world over. It is only an extremist minority who choose to make random acts of violence with the aim to acheive emacipation. The extremist Islamic groups are for a religious revolution from above. Rather than a workers revolution from below. Instead of advocating mass strike action, they advocate random acts of violence which as we all know acheives nothing.

As for the Iraq insurgency...what would you do if you were occupied by a foreign force?

Rather than Islamic extremisim or Islam in general, people tend to overlook the impact Imperialist Capitalism is having on the situation. Islam is certainly not being overlooked. In Australia, The UK & US Draconian Anti-terror laws have been passed paving the way for an Orwellian nightmare. These laws are not aimed at the anglo population, they are being used to opress the Muslim polulation at home.

Believe me, Islam is high on the agenda for imperialist governments.

newsflash: islam is not a race. dislike of religion does not equal racism. i have equal an equal disdain for christianity, i guess that makes me doubly racist?

'religion is the opium of the people'. i'm guessing by the red star in your avatar you'll recognise that quote. i really can't see how left wing politics can be compatible with islam (or christianity, or judaism etc etc....shit i must be the biggest racist in the world!).

[westernsynthetics]

i think most people tend to overlook the massive impact radical Islam is having on the situation. as bad as saddam was, he held shit together and would not tolerate any of the religious extremism which is rampant in iraq right now.....much like musharraf in pakistan. it's not ideal, but lesser of two evils and all that.

bottom line, bush and blair fucked up, religion is bad, and for fuck sake islam is not the 'religion of peace'. i'm sick of hearing this.

Your racisim here is quite disgusting.

There are millions of peaceful Mulisim people the world over. It is only an extremist minority who choose to make random acts of violence with the aim to acheive emacipation. The extremist Islamic groups are for a religious revolution from above. Rather than a workers revolution from below. Instead of advocating mass strike action, they advocate random acts of violence which as we all know acheives nothing.

As for the Iraq insurgency...what would you do if you were occupied by a foreign force?

Rather than Islamic extremisim or Islam in general, people tend to overlook the impact Imperialist Capitalism is having on the situation. Islam is certainly not being overlooked. In Australia, The UK & US Draconian Anti-terror laws have been passed paving the way for an Orwellian nightmare. These laws are not aimed at the anglo population, they are being used to opress the Muslim polulation at home.

Believe me, Islam is high on the agenda for imperialist governments.

newsflash: islam is not a race. dislike of religion does not equal racism. i have equal an equal disdain for christianity, i guess that makes me doubly racist?

'religion is the opium of the people'. i'm guessing by the red star in your avatar you'll recognise that quote. i really can't see how left wing politics can be compatible with islam (or christianity, or judaism etc etc....shit i must be the biggest racist in the world!).

Muslims and Islam is a group of people you were generalising about.
And yes my thoughts on religion are similar to yours. I beleive religion is redundant too. But when anti terror laws are directed against muslims that is racist. When ideas like Islam is not a religion of peace are thrown about, this ony perpetuates the racist tendencies.

[juliun_c90]

newsflash: islam is not a race.

[minusdegree]

protesting and socialist rhetoric solves nothing, troops are still in Iraq, Howard and Bush are still in charge. Im sure the people of Iraq appreciate the gesture though

[jackquinox]

i think most people tend to overlook the massive impact radical Islam is having on the situation. as bad as saddam was, he held shit together and would not tolerate any of the religious extremism which is rampant in iraq right now.....much like musharraf in pakistan. it's not ideal, but lesser of two evils and all that.

bottom line, bush and blair fucked up, religion is bad, and for fuck sake islam is not the 'religion of peace'. i'm sick of hearing this.

Your racisim here is quite disgusting.

There are millions of peaceful Mulisim people the world over. It is only an extremist minority who choose to make random acts of violence with the aim to acheive emacipation. The extremist Islamic groups are for a religious revolution from above. Rather than a workers revolution from below. Instead of advocating mass strike action, they advocate random acts of violence which as we all know acheives nothing.

As for the Iraq insurgency...what would you do if you were occupied by a foreign force?

Rather than Islamic extremisim or Islam in general, people tend to overlook the impact Imperialist Capitalism is having on the situation. Islam is certainly not being overlooked. In Australia, The UK & US Draconian Anti-terror laws have been passed paving the way for an Orwellian nightmare. These laws are not aimed at the anglo population, they are being used to opress the Muslim polulation at home.

Believe me, Islam is high on the agenda for imperialist governments.

newsflash: islam is not a race. dislike of religion does not equal racism. i have equal an equal disdain for christianity, i guess that makes me doubly racist?

'religion is the opium of the people'. i'm guessing by the red star in your avatar you'll recognise that quote. i really can't see how left wing politics can be compatible with islam (or christianity, or judaism etc etc....shit i must be the biggest racist in the world!).

Muslims and Islam is a group of people you were generalising about.
And yes my thoughts on religion are similar to yours. I beleive religion is redundant too. But when anti terror laws are directed against muslims that is racist. When ideas like Islam is not a religion of peace are thrown about, this ony perpetuates the racist tendencies.

The principles and ideas of religion arent bad its just that people are greedy and in general idiots.

[paolo]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but why would the US and UK invade Iraq to secure its oil? It's not like Saddam was sitting on it and not letting anyone else have any, the oil was being exported to the West under the oil-for-food program. And as far as I understand, the oil companies opposed the war on the grounds that it would increase instability in the region

[esfandyar]

yo westernsynthetics, Im feeling alot of what you have been writing. If you get a chance, check my friend's blog out- phoenixinsurgent.blogspot.com..

Its an anti-technology anarchist commentary on worldly events, pop-culture, criticisms on different things. A good read, and updated often .

[aaron contreras]

But when anti terror laws are directed against muslims that is racist.

No:

Code: Select all

rac·ism (rā'sĭz'əm) 
n.  
   1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
   2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

When ideas like Islam is not a religion of peace are thrown about, this ony perpetuates the racist tendencies.

So when the 'anglos' draft laws to protect themselves it is an 'Orwellian Nightmare' but we should all ignore the bloodshed caused in the name of Islam because it will make it rougher on Muslims - who you apparently think are a race?

Please don't breed.

[westernsynthetics]

But when anti terror laws are directed against muslims that is racist.

No:

Code: Select all

rac·ism (rā'sĭz'əm) 
n.  
   1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
   2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

When ideas like Islam is not a religion of peace are thrown about, this ony perpetuates the racist tendencies.

So when the 'anglos' draft laws to protect themselves it is an 'Orwellian Nightmare' but we should all ignore the bloodshed caused in the name of Islam because it will make it rougher on Muslims - who you apparently think are a race?

Please don't breed.

Please dont misconstrue my words.

Nowhere did i say bloodshed in the name of Islam should be ignored.

To predjudice against one group of people is known as racism. In this case we are talking about racism against Muslims. Plain and simple. Jews are reffered to as a race and Judaism is a religion...but who who fucking cares!!! Stop distracting yourselves from the real issue here..we could arue for hours about what consitutes a race but the point is that we are all human. There is no such thing as race.

[juliun_c90]

To predjudice against one group of people is known as racism.

no. no its not. is prejudice against women based on the belief that they're an inferior sex known as racism? no because they're not a race. muslims do not all share the same race. they come from different places. for fuck sake get this clear.

i know its not the real issue here- the issue is war- but you seem so determined to be wrong on this i can't let it go.

[westernsynthetics]

To predjudice against one group of people is known as racism.

no. no its not. is prejudice against women based on the belief that they're an inferior sex known as racism? no because they're not a race. muslims do not all share the same race. they come from different places. for fuck sake get this clear.

i know its not the real issue here- the issue is war- but you seem so determined to be wrong on this i can't let it go.

My whole point was that draconian anti-terror laws are racistly being used against Muslims, be it a Indonesian, Syrian or British Muslims. I could have said "people of Middle Eastern appearance" but this would have indicated that Muslims with Asian or even Anglo appearance are not being predjidiced against. The reality is that if you are a Muslim you are a target with these laws. Can we please avoid this mind numbing dialogue and agree to disagree?

[westernsynthetics]

The You Tube vid has had alot of hits a a result of this thread so thanks to all the heads who took the time to watch it. We will be filming the APEC summit which will be attended by Bush and other imperialists from all over the world here in Sydney in September.

There has been a fantastic tradition worlwide of massive protests greeting Bush wherever he goes in the world. So in Sydney we are planning to keep that tradition very much alive. If you are in Australia in September and you hate George Bush, War & Imperialism then you cant afford to miss the opportunity to tell the worlds biggest terrorist how much of an asshole he really is.

For more info vist:
http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=130

[knowone]

protesting and socialist rhetoric solves nothing, troops are still in Iraq, Howard and Bush are still in charge. Im sure the people of Iraq appreciate the gesture though

Saying that protesting solves nothing is ignorant. Although the act of protesting often has no immediate outcome, it is the visible aspect of an active Anti-war MOVEMENT. Without which, we would still be in Vietnam or whatever wars they want to make a profit off of. You can't just go to a protest and think you're making a difference, you have to look at the movement holistically, how everything you do contributes to the social problems and solutions. What do YOU do to stop the war? It depends on your personal strengths and creativity. I say do everything you fucking can.

It seems pretty obvious that soldiers are not going to solve the problems in Iraq. The US empire has been involved in literally hundreds of invasions, coups and revolutions all over the world in the past 50 years, and not one has led to a "democracy". Its all just Empire and resources. Brittan is their #1 ally. So pulling out troops is the first step. Rebuilding Iraq, trying to stabilize the govt and encouraging democracy has to be done. How? The UN, economic aid etc... It would be best done by communities, social groups, activists and other self organized groups.

The war in the middle east will not be over while Israel and the apostate Muslim regimes in Kuwait and Saudi Arabi exist and are supported by US militarism and capitalism.

Nice job on the video (and the discussion)... They probably do appreciate it.

[westernsynthetics]

protesting and socialist rhetoric solves nothing, troops are still in Iraq, Howard and Bush are still in charge. Im sure the people of Iraq appreciate the gesture though

Saying that protesting solves nothing is ignorant. Although the act of protesting often has no immediate outcome, it is the visible aspect of an active Anti-war MOVEMENT. Without which, we would still be in Vietnam or whatever wars they want to make a profit off of. You can't just go to a protest and think you're making a difference, you have to look at the movement holistically, how everything you do contributes to the social problems and solutions. What do YOU do to stop the war? It depends on your personal strengths and creativity. I say do everything you fucking can.

It seems pretty obvious that soldiers are not going to solve the problems in Iraq. The US empire has been involved in literally hundreds of invasions, coups and revolutions all over the world in the past 50 years, and not one has led to a "democracy". Its all just Empire and resources. Brittan is their #1 ally. So pulling out troops is the first step. Rebuilding Iraq, trying to stabilize the govt and encouraging democracy has to be done. How? The UN, economic aid etc... It would be best done by communities, social groups, activists and other self organized groups.

The war in the middle east will not be over while Israel and the apostate Muslim regimes in Kuwait and Saudi Arabi exist and are supported by US militarism and capitalism.

Nice job on the video (and the discussion)... They probably do appreciate it.

Large upps!