Stock sounds - who needs plugins?

[Rappone]

I agree with what you said. That's why Im dedicating my time now to learning sound design. Also, you mentioned it takes more time working on the native, so if you take as much time with a great plugin you can come up with better. I also never said it's not possible to make ableton sounds sound good, I just implied it's a tedious time-waster and I'd rather muck around with fm8 and massive and get good my sound from there in half the time or even less.

Is wasp subtractive synthesis btw?

[Rappone]

subfect... the links were ableton websites. oh man. hold up ill printscreen for your sorry ass

[ehbes]

Funny, because every thread you comment on morphs into a bullshit thread. Coz you never have any input except opinionated remarks that you lay out as facts.

And heres an opinion for you. I think your IQ is too low for college. Ditch, IMO.

Really? Can you post some examples of this bullshitery. If its a question of IQ there are more than enough people on this forum who would back me up on having a pretty good one.

[Rappone]

http://postimage.org/image/6p3vot0iz/full/

Here you go.

[skwiggo]

Using the operator as a design tool, yes, you can outperform big names, but not if you master the big names instead. the built in sounds in ableton, most of them, need harsh layering/filtering/EQing and what have you so they sound like 'industry' standard. They just don't cut it for me. IMO. To each their own though.
That being said I really like the track in ur sig. the piano sample is amazing. You've been on it for more than a year right (production)? Oh, n let me guess, you used synth plugins not ableton native.

Can't say I agree with that. I have most good plugins available to me, and depending on the required result, I think they all do just fine. I have never used a plugin and NOT used any form of post-processing FX. In all honesty, I find operator to be one of the best FM-synthesis plugins available, right beside FM8. And analog, is a beast for when it comes to warm sounds.

this! ableton does have some shit effects plugins (the reverb springs to mind), theres been a lot of debate over the quality of the sound engine and some of my favourite producers like villalobos and luomo/vlad delay have knocked ableton for it's quality. but ffs amazing producers like objekt and the guy who helped to design ableton, robert henke (monolake) get amazing sounds out of the stock plugins. daft punk and everyones favourite brostep poster boy skrillex use operator too. the analog, tension and electric instruments are designed by AAS who make really good third party plugins.

i find most of the plugins are perfectly usable in comparison to big name vsts - and i have experience with big names like massive and FM8 too when collabing with other producers.

and OP - your tune sounded pretty good to me i'm an almost exclusive native ableton plugins user apart from the korg digital legacy collection, a few freeware effects plugins and loads of samples.

[Rappone]

No point in bickering, brums. You're just a clown IMO. Why do you care what I think anyway? Get your dose of security from those who would consider you of sufficient intelligence then.

[ehbes]

http://postimage.org/image/6p3vot0iz/full/

Here you go.

Hey can we see that screen shot of you with green hair?

[subfect]

No need to resort to name-calling when I all I did was repeat what you found, with different results

Anyways, clearly noone is interested in such tuts so - over and out!

[Rappone]

http://postimage.org/image/6p3vot0iz/full/

Here you go.

Hey can we see that screen shot of you with green hair?

Would you like a shot of my balls too? and rod? coz you seem to be riding them. Better if you know how they look like, I'm thinking

[ehbes]

Hey how bout we settle this with a tune battle you and me..

[Genevieve]

Go to google and type in any of thise..

Renoise sounds b
Cubase soudns b
Logic sounds b

It's not just Ableton, it's all DAWs that have that rep. And after a lot of testing, A/B'ing, etc etc. you know what was concluded?

Whatever sound comes in, also comes out. Whatever sound is generated in one DAW will be the same in another. And it's pure.

We've all come across these rumors Rappone. But most of us have been at it for longer than 2 months, researched it and know a thing or two about our ears. And that is that our ears are full of shit. When we see a cool new VST with a lot of faders, a 200 dollars pricetag, a cool looking interface and a million modulation options and our favorite producers using it, we'll think that it's the VST doing it. Or when we a see $2000+ hardware synth, regardless of if it's digital or analog or not, with a lot of knobs and a little lights on it, we'll think it'll sounds 'realer' or more 'warm'. There's even people who swear that their Apple computer sounds more analog than a Windows PC or that an old Amiga tracker sounds like a hardware sampler. This is because we project our expectations onto the sound.

I personally don't like Renoise's native reverb. Kinda sounds dull to my ears. Meanwhile Autechre love it. So should I say it's not industry standard when an act that basically co-created that standard uses it?

I swear that every bit of software that you think sounds 'sub industry standard', there's some guy topping the Beatport charts or getting Grammy nominations who swear by it (and I don't have a link right now, but I've actually recently read a little interview with a Grammy nominated recording engineer who said that any engineer should be equally capable of getting a decent sound using nothing but Ableton stock devices OR some fancy analog outboard mixing desk).

Then there's also the matter of listening to elments in SONGs, in CONTEXT, and hearing the individual sounds by themselves. You know, most synth generated sounds on their own sound fucking shit. They start to sound good because of the way they interact with other sounds. So that one sound that you think sounds shit when going through stock Ableton sounds, may sound fantastic in a certain chord, playing a certain progression with a cool drumbeat and a bassline around it. Even Noisia basses can sound really outside of the context of a 'bassline'.

You seriously have some attitude for someone who practically knows nothing about producing. Comes with being a newby though, you have waaay too much faith in your own ears.

[Rappone]

I didnt put a 'b'. just 'ableton sounds'
so much for your first statement.
Also, why did you take it so much to heart? What exactly is it that annoyed you so much? Ofcourse I have faith in my own ears. Did you even read what I was saying? Your remarks are all misplaced, since I am familiar with all of them.

And as for brums. I've been on it for less than 2 months, the forum dwellers would definitely take your side since you've been here way longer, but I'd still whip up a tune for you if u think its fair, no problems

[ehbes]

And as for brums. I've been on it for less than 2 months, the forum dwellers would definitely take your side since you've been here way longer, but I'd still whip up a tune for you if u think its fair, no problems

Submissions are handled by a third party as to avoid bias for one member or another

[Triphosphate]

Genevieve, It's so true that the price tag and appearance trick us into believing something is better or worse. I'm reminded of an experiment where they wired up an amp with a monster cable and a coat-hanger and a group of alleged audiophiles couldn't actually tell the difference when they blindly a/b'd it. Our brains are really quite gullible.

[subfect]

[Rappone]

it's still easy to tell which track was made by you because theyre familiar with your style. You've also been at it much longer than I have. I'm still down though, if you insist on it. I'll just put my next tune up for it, Im making one every week or so anyway.

What's up with people having something personal against me? I may come off as opinionated, but it'll make much better for your mood if you either dismiss me or correct me blandly instead of getting annoyed by my posts. We could both learn some that way.

[ehbes]

If your not completely up for it then it won't happen. Tune battles require the contestants to make a tune in the alotted time.

[Genevieve]

I didnt put a 'b'. just 'ableton sounds'

Yeah and I did put a b with Renoise but 'bad' didn't show up. Doesn't change that in the.. roughly 5 years that I've been producing, I've come across a shitton of people saying that Renoise sounds like ass compared to other "professional DAWs". Actual testing refuted those claims. And refuted the same claims about Ableton.

So a Grammy winning engineer who can record with nothing but stock Ableton plugs can't produce 'industry standard music' according to you.

Also, why did you take it so much to heart? What exactly is it that annoyed you so much? Ofcourse I have faith in my own ears. Did you even read what I was saying? Your remarks are all misplaced, since I am familiar with all of them.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. I'm saying that our ears, including mine, are full of shit and lie to us all the time. You have this abundance of faith in your own ears that none of us have in ours.

So it's great and all that you've heard all these things before. But you've also always failed to address them. So I don't see how that matters.

And I'm against kids who can't even produce lowering the standard of knowledge that's being exchanged here with broad, sweepin ggeneralizations about 'quality', that have repeatedly been refuted after vigorous testing.

[Genevieve]

What's up with people having something personal against me? I may come off as opinionated, but it'll make much better for your mood if you either dismiss me or correct me blandly instead of getting annoyed by my posts. We could both learn some that way.

No one's getting annoyed with your posts, people are just correcting you blandly. Except when people correct you, you dismiss it without giving a proper argument and restate the same thing people have been arguing against already. I've dismissed most of your posts.

[Rappone]

I just dont think anything will be 'settled' with a 'battle'. I know coz with rap, it just always made things worse.
You're just looking for a way to prove to yourself that you're in some way better than me. I just like fvcking around, and we both, obviously, are extremely opinionated. We have it differently thats all. If you just dont take my little jibes to heart it'll all be good. I know I don't, I just retort. I really have no ill feelings towards you though. Hate's a waste, especially online.

LOL ok ok jenny. Point taken. Calm down. I said you CAN produce quality work using ableton, it just takes that much more time. read what I said. They're shit on the surface (again IMO), and that annoys me. And I do address the issues I know about. I'll know more with time.