eh?Dept of Hell Science wrote:blogging or myspace of which i am philosophically opposed to
shame your not philosophically opposed to talking out of your arse...
The Defenition of Dubstep
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dept of hell science
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:35 am
- Location: babylon-line
Fucking hell, I'm going to have to wade in with my two pence here. Dubmugga (or whatever you're called this week), please, a bit of perspective.
Whats all this "suddenly its a UK underground scene" bullshit? You trying to tell me that dubstep evolved in tandem over the last 8 or so years both in London and in your studio in god-knows-where?
I can't say any of this without sounding elitest, but fuck it. I remember absolutely ripping it out of Martin back in the day for listening to 'gay-rage' and 'spud cabbage' (you work it out), and this was before Dizzee, before Tempa, before this whole "online" crap you're spouting about. I don't remember ANY online presence reppin dubstep at that time, not least from your little corner of the world.
The point being, people like Martin, Kode9 et al worked their balls off to get the scene where it is today, pushing it in magazines and papers when people thought garage was just So Solid and didn't want to touch it. You sitting there with your half-baked beats claiming somesort of originator status is only going to piss people off.
There's not a single person here who isn't for the globalisation of the scene, and if you have the will and the way, then join in, but DON'T JUMP ON OTHER PEOPLE'S HARD WORK.
So when is your tune actually coming out then? Cause 8 years in the making, it had better be good.
Whats all this "suddenly its a UK underground scene" bullshit? You trying to tell me that dubstep evolved in tandem over the last 8 or so years both in London and in your studio in god-knows-where?
You seem to be accusing UK heads of bandwagon jumping, something I find almost eye-wateringly laughable, as you're blatantly trying to gain somesort of credit for the way the scene is today.now that dubstep is the next big thing it's suddenly getting promoted as a UK underound thing but it's far more than that now and that's the angle I think someone needs to write about. How this music differs from others is that it evolved on line in real time across the globe
I can't say any of this without sounding elitest, but fuck it. I remember absolutely ripping it out of Martin back in the day for listening to 'gay-rage' and 'spud cabbage' (you work it out), and this was before Dizzee, before Tempa, before this whole "online" crap you're spouting about. I don't remember ANY online presence reppin dubstep at that time, not least from your little corner of the world.
The point being, people like Martin, Kode9 et al worked their balls off to get the scene where it is today, pushing it in magazines and papers when people thought garage was just So Solid and didn't want to touch it. You sitting there with your half-baked beats claiming somesort of originator status is only going to piss people off.
There's not a single person here who isn't for the globalisation of the scene, and if you have the will and the way, then join in, but DON'T JUMP ON OTHER PEOPLE'S HARD WORK.
So when is your tune actually coming out then? Cause 8 years in the making, it had better be good.
Mate, I'm not dismissing DC's importance in the history of uk breakbeat etc - the mans a genius, one of my first loves, and his tunes get better with every release ("I AM HI VOLTAGE MAAAAAN!!!!") - but that little history you gave earlier could have been about almost any break-related subgenre from the last 10 years. I have never and will never equate DC with dubstep, sorry.
Well its not the silver dub, that comes at the end of the track & unfortunatly its not on the sample mp3.. it took me ages to find this sample...
This snippet is depthcharge v silver fox with mc alkaline.. from GUNSHOT.
The track has influeced some of the dub-step production to date.. & any mc's out there should take note. The rhymes MC Alkaline spits are
15 year old lyrics that would torch alot of rhymes about today...
Joseph-j.. i'm with you!! it is a breaks tune,
The piece I wrote yesterday was a genralisation.. totally..
but all relevant history in the breaks areana...
This snippet is depthcharge v silver fox with mc alkaline.. from GUNSHOT.
The track has influeced some of the dub-step production to date.. & any mc's out there should take note. The rhymes MC Alkaline spits are
15 year old lyrics that would torch alot of rhymes about today...
Joseph-j.. i'm with you!! it is a breaks tune,
The piece I wrote yesterday was a genralisation.. totally..
but all relevant history in the breaks areana...
demon boyz ..they were better tho..
http://www.myspace.com/ZOMBYproductions
http://www.myspace.com/HEAVYARTILLERYLABEL
'SPLIFF DUB' OUT SOON !!!!
http://www.myspace.com/HEAVYARTILLERYLABEL
'SPLIFF DUB' OUT SOON !!!!
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razer-wire
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:03 pm
- Location: Location Location
iv just been on a online encyclopedia and it said
Dubstep is the name given to the largely South London-based dark garage sound that originally came out of productions by El-B (as part of both Groove Chronicles and the Ghost camp), Zed Bias (aka Phuturistix, Maddslinky and more) and Steve Gurley in 1999-2000. Like another garage hybrid, grime, it uses dark sounds, but differs from grime as it's largely instrumental. It also predates the evolution of grime by several years.
Origins and Early Dubstep
The term 'dubstep' was first used on an XLR8R magazine cover that featured Horsepower Productions, and gained full acceptance with the Dubstep Allstars Vol 1 CD (Tempa) mixed by DJ Hatcha.
The key touch points of the early dubstep sound were Croydon's now defunct Big Apple shop and rejuvenated Big Apple records that pushed the sound. Producers and DJs in the Croydon area included El-B and Jay Da Flex from Ghost, Hatcha, Menta/Artwork, Skream and Benga from Big Apple records, and Horsepower. Zed Bias also contributed a great deal of productions to the early sound. Steve Gurley (ex of Foul Play) had also experimented with darker 2step.
the origins of dubstep
Horsepower released records on the Tempa label, alongside Big Apple one of the first distinctly dubstep labels. Tempa was run by Ammunition Promotions, the other key touch point for the early development of dubstep. Since 2001, Ammunition have been responsible for a raft of labels like Tempa, Soulja, Road, Vehicle, Shelflife, Texture, Stealth People, Bingo and more - though to date only Soulja, Bingo and Tempa remain active.
Forward
Ammunition also run club Forward>>, originally held at the Velvet Rooms in London's Soho and now running twice a month out of Plastic People in Shoreditch, east London. This club was critical in the development of dubstep, providing the first venue devoted to the sound and an environment in which producers could premier new music. Forward>> also run a radio show on key east London pirate station Rinse FM, hosted by producer/DJ Kode 9, owner of the pioneering Hyperdub label.
Also part of Forward>> from the start were other strains of garage hybrids. One style of early grime, then called '8bar', was played here by DJs like Slimzee (then of Pay As U Go, now part of Rinse FM). These flavours allowed producers like Croydon's Plasticman and Manchester's Mark One to come through with their own takes on the grime sound. The summer of 2005 has seen Forward>> bring grime DJs to the fore of the line up with Roll Deep, Jammer, Geeneus, Newham Generals performing with their respective MCs.
Forward>> also attracted the attention of Rinse FM DJs, who around 2003 opened up their schedule to dubstep DJs during a time where the traditional garage scene had turned their back on the sound. Rinse FM became a vital lifeline for the sound, strengthening the connection between dubstep and its urban London surroundings, while also allowing the scene to incubate new ideas.
Dubstep Today
Throughout 2003 on Rinse FM and through his sets at Forward>>, DJ Hatcha began pioneering a new direction for dubstep, one that was to finally establish the scene as a distinct and new sound. Playing sets cut to 10" one-off reggae-style dubplates, he drew exclusively from a rich pool of new South London producers - first Benga and Skream, then also Digital Mystikz and Loefah - to pioneer a dark, clipped and minimal new direction in dubstep. The addition of Digital Mystikz to Hatcha sets brought with them an expanded palate of sounds and influences, most prominantly reggae and dub, but also strange mystical melodies.
The south London collective Digital Mystikz (Mala and Coki) and Loefah soon came into their own, bringing sound system thinking, dub values, and and appreciation of jungle bass weight to the dubstep scene - and with it a new lease on life. After 12"s on Big Apple, they began their own DMZ label, which has released six 12"s to date. They also began their night DMZ, held every two months in Brixton, a part of London steeped in reggae history. Showcasing the best in new dubstep talent (such as Skream, N-Type, Scuba, Kode 9, D1, Random Trio, Chef, Joe Nice, Pinch, DJ Youngsta, Distinction, Vex'd and Blackdown ) and backed by a massive, sub-bass boosted sound system, the night is currently the benchmark dubstep night worldwide. Only Subloaded, Bristol's dubstep night promoted by DJ Pinch and the Context crew, can compare to DMZ's sound system in weight.
Another key turning point for the scene were the two misnamed 'Grime' compilations put together by Rephlex (assisted by Ammunition). Featuring Plasticman, Mark One and Slaughter Mob on the first volume, and Kode 9, Loefah and Digital Mystikz on the second, it introduced the different flavours to the global electronica audience, the repercussions of which can be seen in current productions and club nights.
2006 saw a massive expansion of interest in the sound. Building on the success of Skream's 2005 grimey anthem 'Midnight Request Line,' the hype around the DMZ night and support from online forums and bloggers, the scene exploded after Radio 1 DJ Mary Anne Hobbs gathered the cream of the scene together for one show, entitled 'Dubstep Warz.' The effect was to create a massive new audience for the scene, both in the UK and worldwide, after years of underground hard graft.
Breakstep
There is a breakbeat influenced side of garage - originally called breakbeat garage, now more often referred to as 'breakstep.' This sound is not to be confused with dubstep itself, although there is some cross-over between artists.
Breakstep evolved from the 2 step garage sound. Moving away from the more soulful elements of garage, it incorporated downtempo drum & bass style basslines, trading the shuffle of 2 step for a more straight forward breakbeat drum pattern. The breakthrough for this style came in 1999 from DJ Deekline's 'I Don't Smoke' selling 15,000 units on Rat Records until eventually being licenced to EastWest in 2000 and climing the top 40 UK chart to no.11. Following this came DJ Zinc's '138 Trek,' an experiment with drum & bass production at garage tempo (138 bpm). This instigated a dialog between breaks and garage producers, with Forward>> playing host to Zed Bias and Oris Jay (aka Darqwan). They were mirrored in breaks by producers like DJ Quest, Osmosis and Ed209. Current descendents of these artists include Toasty Boy, Mark One, Search & Destroy, Quiet Storm, DJ Distance, Reza, Slaughter Mob, Blackmass Plastics, Warlock and the Hotflush Recordings camp.
so there u go in black and white the real defination of dubstep
Dubstep is the name given to the largely South London-based dark garage sound that originally came out of productions by El-B (as part of both Groove Chronicles and the Ghost camp), Zed Bias (aka Phuturistix, Maddslinky and more) and Steve Gurley in 1999-2000. Like another garage hybrid, grime, it uses dark sounds, but differs from grime as it's largely instrumental. It also predates the evolution of grime by several years.
Origins and Early Dubstep
The term 'dubstep' was first used on an XLR8R magazine cover that featured Horsepower Productions, and gained full acceptance with the Dubstep Allstars Vol 1 CD (Tempa) mixed by DJ Hatcha.
The key touch points of the early dubstep sound were Croydon's now defunct Big Apple shop and rejuvenated Big Apple records that pushed the sound. Producers and DJs in the Croydon area included El-B and Jay Da Flex from Ghost, Hatcha, Menta/Artwork, Skream and Benga from Big Apple records, and Horsepower. Zed Bias also contributed a great deal of productions to the early sound. Steve Gurley (ex of Foul Play) had also experimented with darker 2step.
the origins of dubstep
Horsepower released records on the Tempa label, alongside Big Apple one of the first distinctly dubstep labels. Tempa was run by Ammunition Promotions, the other key touch point for the early development of dubstep. Since 2001, Ammunition have been responsible for a raft of labels like Tempa, Soulja, Road, Vehicle, Shelflife, Texture, Stealth People, Bingo and more - though to date only Soulja, Bingo and Tempa remain active.
Forward
Ammunition also run club Forward>>, originally held at the Velvet Rooms in London's Soho and now running twice a month out of Plastic People in Shoreditch, east London. This club was critical in the development of dubstep, providing the first venue devoted to the sound and an environment in which producers could premier new music. Forward>> also run a radio show on key east London pirate station Rinse FM, hosted by producer/DJ Kode 9, owner of the pioneering Hyperdub label.
Also part of Forward>> from the start were other strains of garage hybrids. One style of early grime, then called '8bar', was played here by DJs like Slimzee (then of Pay As U Go, now part of Rinse FM). These flavours allowed producers like Croydon's Plasticman and Manchester's Mark One to come through with their own takes on the grime sound. The summer of 2005 has seen Forward>> bring grime DJs to the fore of the line up with Roll Deep, Jammer, Geeneus, Newham Generals performing with their respective MCs.
Forward>> also attracted the attention of Rinse FM DJs, who around 2003 opened up their schedule to dubstep DJs during a time where the traditional garage scene had turned their back on the sound. Rinse FM became a vital lifeline for the sound, strengthening the connection between dubstep and its urban London surroundings, while also allowing the scene to incubate new ideas.
Dubstep Today
Throughout 2003 on Rinse FM and through his sets at Forward>>, DJ Hatcha began pioneering a new direction for dubstep, one that was to finally establish the scene as a distinct and new sound. Playing sets cut to 10" one-off reggae-style dubplates, he drew exclusively from a rich pool of new South London producers - first Benga and Skream, then also Digital Mystikz and Loefah - to pioneer a dark, clipped and minimal new direction in dubstep. The addition of Digital Mystikz to Hatcha sets brought with them an expanded palate of sounds and influences, most prominantly reggae and dub, but also strange mystical melodies.
The south London collective Digital Mystikz (Mala and Coki) and Loefah soon came into their own, bringing sound system thinking, dub values, and and appreciation of jungle bass weight to the dubstep scene - and with it a new lease on life. After 12"s on Big Apple, they began their own DMZ label, which has released six 12"s to date. They also began their night DMZ, held every two months in Brixton, a part of London steeped in reggae history. Showcasing the best in new dubstep talent (such as Skream, N-Type, Scuba, Kode 9, D1, Random Trio, Chef, Joe Nice, Pinch, DJ Youngsta, Distinction, Vex'd and Blackdown ) and backed by a massive, sub-bass boosted sound system, the night is currently the benchmark dubstep night worldwide. Only Subloaded, Bristol's dubstep night promoted by DJ Pinch and the Context crew, can compare to DMZ's sound system in weight.
Another key turning point for the scene were the two misnamed 'Grime' compilations put together by Rephlex (assisted by Ammunition). Featuring Plasticman, Mark One and Slaughter Mob on the first volume, and Kode 9, Loefah and Digital Mystikz on the second, it introduced the different flavours to the global electronica audience, the repercussions of which can be seen in current productions and club nights.
2006 saw a massive expansion of interest in the sound. Building on the success of Skream's 2005 grimey anthem 'Midnight Request Line,' the hype around the DMZ night and support from online forums and bloggers, the scene exploded after Radio 1 DJ Mary Anne Hobbs gathered the cream of the scene together for one show, entitled 'Dubstep Warz.' The effect was to create a massive new audience for the scene, both in the UK and worldwide, after years of underground hard graft.
Breakstep
There is a breakbeat influenced side of garage - originally called breakbeat garage, now more often referred to as 'breakstep.' This sound is not to be confused with dubstep itself, although there is some cross-over between artists.
Breakstep evolved from the 2 step garage sound. Moving away from the more soulful elements of garage, it incorporated downtempo drum & bass style basslines, trading the shuffle of 2 step for a more straight forward breakbeat drum pattern. The breakthrough for this style came in 1999 from DJ Deekline's 'I Don't Smoke' selling 15,000 units on Rat Records until eventually being licenced to EastWest in 2000 and climing the top 40 UK chart to no.11. Following this came DJ Zinc's '138 Trek,' an experiment with drum & bass production at garage tempo (138 bpm). This instigated a dialog between breaks and garage producers, with Forward>> playing host to Zed Bias and Oris Jay (aka Darqwan). They were mirrored in breaks by producers like DJ Quest, Osmosis and Ed209. Current descendents of these artists include Toasty Boy, Mark One, Search & Destroy, Quiet Storm, DJ Distance, Reza, Slaughter Mob, Blackmass Plastics, Warlock and the Hotflush Recordings camp.
so there u go in black and white the real defination of dubstep
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ufo over easy
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dept of hell science
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:35 am
- Location: babylon-line
...going backwards hereJoseph-J wrote:Fucking hell, I'm going to have to wade in with my two pence here. Dubmugga (or whatever you're called this week), please, a bit of perspective.
Whats all this "suddenly its a UK underground scene" bullshit? You trying to tell me that dubstep evolved in tandem over the last 8 or so years both in London and in your studio in god-knows-where?
You seem to be accusing UK heads of bandwagon jumping, something I find almost eye-wateringly laughable, as you're blatantly trying to gain somesort of credit for the way the scene is today.now that dubstep is the next big thing it's suddenly getting promoted as a UK underound thing but it's far more than that now and that's the angle I think someone needs to write about. How this music differs from others is that it evolved on line in real time across the globe
I can't say any of this without sounding elitest, but fuck it. I remember absolutely ripping it out of Martin back in the day for listening to 'gay-rage' and 'spud cabbage' (you work it out), and this was before Dizzee, before Tempa, before this whole "online" crap you're spouting about. I don't remember ANY online presence reppin dubstep at that time, not least from your little corner of the world.
The point being, people like Martin, Kode9 et al worked their balls off to get the scene where it is today, pushing it in magazines and papers when people thought garage was just So Solid and didn't want to touch it. You sitting there with your half-baked beats claiming somesort of originator status is only going to piss people off.
There's not a single person here who isn't for the globalisation of the scene, and if you have the will and the way, then join in, but DON'T JUMP ON OTHER PEOPLE'S HARD WORK.
So when is your tune actually coming out then? Cause 8 years in the making, it had better be good.
<start rant>
digitally we have shit out there...
...I'm not jumping on others hard work but it seems a LOT of nu producers from other genres and hi profile radio jocks are
'm claiming originator status for oursound which as I have said developed alongside what became and is now dubstep...
...I know all about kode9 and first started sporadic email contact with him in 02 probably as what he would call an operative in the spread of hyperdub virus. I'm kinda hoping he will start writing along the lines of his CCRU stuff from a dubstep perspective. Black atlantic, afro futurism, sino dub and all that good man stuff
so you're saying you pissed all over 'black for liking garage back in the day and now you're on it like oprah on a diet, dunno if thats bandwagon jumping but if the shoe fits...
...yeah before dizee and tempa we was rockin among others so solid, oxide/neutrino, zed bias, artful dodger, wookie, MJ cole, el-b, oris jay and before that tipper, TCR, botchit going back to tru playaz, meatlheadz, kevin saunderson, juan atkins, NWA, PE, afrika bam and grandmaster flash so what ???... it ain't all about UK garage with us or cloning the latest sound outta london
as for credit for the way the scene is today, yeah me and people like me all over the world hooked up to the net can rightly take a little or would you deny us that too and close it up around a few major players in sarf london...
...cos yeah i'm saying the sound evolved contemporanously in NY with people like dinesh, san fran with abstract and i'm sure there are pockets of unreleased stuff which could be dubstep but before 00 people couldn't connect with it or give it a name like halfstep
I'm not denying londons importance but even in the UK there must have been rumblings all over and it's mostly the UK music culture journo thing i object too like you have some sort of monopoly on dance parties, drugs and cutting edge electronica...
...I supppose you think columbus discovered america too and that nothing of note ever happened unless some colonist wrote about it
well guess what ???
shit happened and has been long before someone ever wrote about and in my culture we passed it on through oral traditions...
...so I'm just telling you how we do, but our beats stand alone form whatever I say and if people want to not listen to ours or play em out then that's cool but I know we're no better and no worse than a lot of shit out there
BTW UFO in 'black's definition it says scuba has played DMZ so has he ???
...and while he states dubstep predates grime, I don't think there was a time when UK rap to garage beats suddenly stopped and grime started, methinks the name changed but the game remained the same
I mean come on roll deep, heartless, pay as u go were rockin their shit before it ever was called grime and they still are as far as i know...
...please anyone do correct me if i'm wrong though
<end rant>
not exactly sure what you've been listening to. there's a reason why i play Blackdown tunes -- they're big tunes.Dept of Hell Science wrote:...finally a bit of passion now if only you could transmute that to your boring music that is both dull and lifeless.
Back to the topic -- a couple of weeks ago, i did a radio interview regarding dubstep; the definition and the history.
Here's the thread.
If you have 2 hours to invest, i feel it's worth the listen.
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dept of hell science
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:35 am
- Location: babylon-line
nah sorry bro just not feeling the downblack stuff just like some people ain't feeling ours...joenice wrote:not exactly sure what you've been listening to. there's a reason why i play Blackdown tunes -- they're big tunes.Dept of Hell Science wrote:...finally a bit of passion now if only you could transmute that to your boring music that is both dull and lifeless.
Back to the topic -- a couple of weeks ago, i did a radio interview regarding dubstep; the definition and the history.
Here's the thread.
If you have 2 hours to invest, i feel it's worth the listen.
...they sound empty and hollow like the filling is missing and I keep wondering where's the rest of it ???
no disrespect to the man but I don't think making beats is his calling, writing about em is and somewhere along the line a conflict of interest will taint his objectivity and curtail his more extreme opinions...
BTW can you honestly say that the fact that you can get his tunes for free and are in the elite of the scene as he is has no bearing on playing out his stuff ???
...and maybe in a couple of weeks I'll listen to your interview cos having witnessed the develpoment of the scene from a detached perspective here in NZ I'd like to hear how you saw it from stateside but at the mo 110 meg and 2 hrs is just gonna tax my wack connection no end
cheers for the linkage though i'll bookmark it for 2 weeks when I be rockin 2megasecond broadbadassness...
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dept of hell science
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:35 am
- Location: babylon-line
yeah thanks for your opinion as well but in some cases as i very well know we should just keep em to ourselves cos in baiting the trolls you become the very thing you are so against...Logos wrote:I've read all through this thread...and its goes against my normal good sense to respond to your troll baitng, but Dubmugga you are full of shit...and everyone can see it.
End of.
...if you want to comment on how full of shit I am then quote some stuff you don't agree with and counter some points in a constructive manner and we'll discuss them as civil mature adults or STFU
it's just my harmless opinion and not the gospel truth take it or leave it it matters little in the general scheme of things...
...it is counter to how the industry works to make music without humility cos no one would ever hear it beyond the confines of someones bedroom
It's all about hype good, bad or indifferent
Whatever or however it is called, Cyber-hype libidinally invests its own semiotic, propagating fictional quantities, tagging artificial agencies, and making itself up as it goes along, whilst dissolving production into cultural synthesis. As it gets cheaper it gets harder to stop , running-away off itself , and into abstraction-catastrophe, a self-assembling terrestrial destiny, softening-up social reality for flat take-over by the Cyber-hype entity ... Hyper-seizure.
http://www.ccru.net/occultures/carver3.htm
remember who we are and what I am...
...the Minister for Disinformation at the Dept of Hell Science
the ghetto prince of gutter poets that got bounced out of the room...
FAME..I'm gonna live forever, Im gonna learn how to fly !!!
as it is we're just taking offf...WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH
and everybody can see only what i want them to see but can you really see me ???
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