Not really sure how to program synths..

[dgibb]

So I bought Massive but I am having a hard time getting some of the sounds I like listening to. I plan on continuing to mess around with it and experiment but I thought I'd make a post on here just to see if anyone can give me advice to save me a bit of time. So here are a couple sounds I'm aiming 'towards'

Bass synth in 9 Lives by Zomby (comes in at 0:25 or so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in58solLTSk

Synth in Ellipsis by JoyO (comes in at 1:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGnSvismXvA

Synth in Me by Sepalcure (starts fading in around 0:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VEuFhOcjmc

Any tips on these three would be really appreciated. Thanks.

[fragments]

Are you a complete beginner?

[dgibb]

Pretty much. I've made a few bass sounds that I'm happy with and know generally how envelopes and filters work, but not how to use them properly. Just from messing around.

[OfficialDAPT]

Why did you choose massive?

[Towany]

You won't get it straight away....its like learning an instrument. Give it time.

[bassinine]

learn:

what an oscillator is and how it works, and the different base-sounds they make.

what routing is and how it works.

the different filters and how they work and interact with different types of routing.

what the envelopes/lfo's are and how they work.

what the different effects do (routing is also important regarding effects, as this is really what processing and re-sampling is).

now you're a pro!

[fragments]

http://noisesculpture.com/how-to-make-a-noise <-----this is probably worth a look if you are pretty much a beginner. I wish I would have done a lot more reading and less just messing around when I first began. Don't get me wrong, the just messing around is good and necessary, but reading up is needed too.

[dgibb]

Cheers guys, thanks for the tips. I'll definitely do a bit of reading while I mess around. Does anyone have any ideas for the synths on the three tunes I posted? I find it helps me to have a bit of a starting point or starting direction when I'm experimenting, especially new.

[fragments]

Honestly, I'd forget about recreating synths of other producers until you know what turn all the knobs in the tutorials is actually doing to the sound.

[alphacat]

Buy a simple, cheap hardware synth with basic functionality (couple oscillators, MIDI, etc.) but not too many features. Something like an old Yamaha, Korg, Roland. You will learn more about applied principles from that than any software IMO.

This is a decent resource, not the most in depth but should cover most basics and unfamiliar terms you've encountered.

If you've got a mind for math & technical stuff then there's probably no more detailed/thorough treatment of the topic than Miller Puckette's free book "The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music," which also handles other topics besides synthesis, and is a no-nonsense scientific approach to the whole shebang. However, most of that stuff is above my head and a lot of other folks 'round here too.

School is cool too.

[fragments]

^A Korg MS2000R would probably be really good for a beginner. I *think* there is a knob per function. Even if not, I know a few guys who use them, they are dead simple to program. And I totally agree with this. Synthesis made way more sense to me after I got my first VA synth.

[rockonin]

Honestly, I'd forget about recreating synths of other producers until you know what turn all the knobs in the tutorials is actually doing to the sound.

I'd forget trying to sound like anyone else period. There's nothing wrong being inspired by other producers and their sounds but instead Innovate rather than Emulate lol You're a beginner so you have loads time to develop your own style and sounds while your learning.

[fragments]

Honestly, I'd forget about recreating synths of other producers until you know what turn all the knobs in the tutorials is actually doing to the sound.

I'd forget trying to sound like anyone else period. There's nothing wrong being inspired by other producers and their sounds but instead Innovate rather than Emulate lol You're a beginner so you have loads time to develop your own style and sounds while your learning.

Right. Totally agree. Was just sayin' if he is insistent on doing "Sound like..." tutorials he'd probably get more out of them when he understands how all the parameters of his synth change a sound. Knowing, in technical terms, what synth parameter does to sound is really useful. At least it was for me.

There is probably still value in doing some of those "Sound like..." like tutorials. I did a couple for reese basses that really gave me the foot work to go out on my own and try stuff. I try not to automatically assume people's intentions with "Sound like..." tutorials are to copy cat.

[Genevieve]

I think with all producing, but also synthesis, is that you're training your ears more than anything else. There's really little else to it except oscillator/filter/modulator/envelope/effect/eq. If you know how these work, then you know how to program synths. Doing it well is a whole 'nother thing and I think that's where you're struggling.

It just takes time and practice it anyway you want. Try to copy others too if you want, cuz in the proces you'll learn to make sounds in general (my drums are nothing but the Flashbulb's, but I started out trying to sound like him and it's helped me heaps). Or look at presets and backwards engineer them. Whatever works, don't let what other people say limit your workflow or learning experience!

It's all about time, dude. Sorry to say. And figuring out YOUR way.

[bassinine]

Honestly, I'd forget about recreating synths of other producers until you know what turn all the knobs in the tutorials is actually doing to the sound.

I'd forget trying to sound like anyone else period. There's nothing wrong being inspired by other producers and their sounds but instead Innovate rather than Emulate lol You're a beginner so you have loads time to develop your own style and sounds while your learning.

Right. Totally agree. Was just sayin' if he is insistent on doing "Sound like..." tutorials he'd probably get more out of them when he understands how all the parameters of his synth change a sound. Knowing, in technical terms, what synth parameter does to sound is really useful. At least it was for me.

There is probably still value in doing some of those "Sound like..." like tutorials. I did a couple for reese basses that really gave me the foot work to go out on my own and try stuff. I try not to automatically assume people's intentions with "Sound like..." tutorials are to copy cat.

this tired fucking argument again?

no, do whatever the fuck YOU WANT. if you want to emulate a sound, fucking do it. if you want to try to come up with your own sound, fucking do it.

every great artist in the world ripped off other artists. that's just how it is. fucking nirvanna's teen spirit was kurt trying to rip off the pixies sound (he's said this), skream has said he was just trying to copy another artist and that's how his sound came about. jim jarmusch on creativity and inspiration: http://www.sundoginteractive.com/images ... eJuice.png

rip people the FUCK off if you want to (just don't plagarize). no matter what you do, YOUR sound will come out on it's own... and you won't have a choice in the matter.

[Genevieve]

Word up. If you can't expect someone's first tune to be a wordclass banger with the technical skill of 10 Noisias and 10 Venetian Snares combined, then why should everything you start out doing be original and on its own?

When you first learn to play guitar or any instrument, they give you some basic rudiments and some classic easy songs to _copy_. So why should it be any different with producing? You develop individualism and originality as you progress and you learn to translate what's in your head more into your DAW. Or not. Some people like being copy cats and if they're having fun with it, who the fuck are we to tell them not to?

[bassinine]

Word up. If you can't expect someone's first tune to be a wordclass banger with the technical skill of 10 Noisias and 10 Venetian Snares combined, then why should everything you start out doing be original and on its own?

When you first learn to play guitar or any instrument, they give you some basic rudiments and some classic easy songs to _copy_. So why should it be any different with producing? You develop individualism and originality as you progress and you learn to translate what's in your head more into your DAW. Or not. Some people like being copy cats and if they're having fun with it, who the fuck are we to tell them not to?

QF mother fucking T.

[fragments]

Honestly, I'd forget about recreating synths of other producers until you know what turn all the knobs in the tutorials is actually doing to the sound.

I'd forget trying to sound like anyone else period. There's nothing wrong being inspired by other producers and their sounds but instead Innovate rather than Emulate lol You're a beginner so you have loads time to develop your own style and sounds while your learning.

Right. Totally agree. Was just sayin' if he is insistent on doing "Sound like..." tutorials he'd probably get more out of them when he understands how all the parameters of his synth change a sound. Knowing, in technical terms, what synth parameter does to sound is really useful. At least it was for me.

There is probably still value in doing some of those "Sound like..." like tutorials. I did a couple for reese basses that really gave me the foot work to go out on my own and try stuff. I try not to automatically assume people's intentions with "Sound like..." tutorials are to copy cat.

this tired fucking argument again?

no, do whatever the fuck YOU WANT. if you want to emulate a sound, fucking do it. if you want to try to come up with your own sound, fucking do it.

every great artist in the world ripped off other artists. that's just how it is. fucking nirvanna's teen spirit was kurt trying to rip off the pixies sound (he's said this), skream has said he was just trying to copy another artist and that's how his sound came about. jim jarmusch on creativity and inspiration: http://www.sundoginteractive.com/images ... eJuice.png

rip people the FUCK off if you want to (just don't plagarize). no matter what you do, YOUR sound will come out on it's own... and you won't have a choice in the matter.

Who are you even flipping out on, jesus dude, it's just an internet conversation. Also, to be clear...I think it's fine to take what someone else has done and put your own twist on it. That's post-modernism in a nutshell and how all artists work.

[alphacat]

^A Korg MS2000R would probably be really good for a beginner. I *think* there is a knob per function. Even if not, I know a few guys who use them, they are dead simple to program. And I totally agree with this. Synthesis made way more sense to me after I got my first VA synth.

I learned everything I know about basic synthesis [except ancillary stuff like MIDI] by buying a Roland Juno 60 at a garage sale for $35 back in 1994. Literally knew squat about it beforehand, although did have some music/production knowledge already. "What do these A-D-S-R thingies mean? What is 'res'? What happens when I switch the LFO like this?" - even if I didn't know the terminology for what I was learning, I was still learning it directly and not in theory. When I'd mastered that, I bought a Korg Poly 800 which has more internal routing/modulation capabilities, and then learned about sequencing, digital modulation, oscillator syncing, and MIDI. It was fun and natural.

Conversely, my first expeditions into virtual synths were NOT that fun, intuitive, or easy. Things have changed a lot since the early days of softsynths and I now use them more than hardware at present, but would not trade the knowledge gained from those hardware models for anything.

[bassinine]

to be clear...I think it's fine to take what someone else has done and put your own twist on it. That's post-modernism in a nutshell and how all artists work.

anyone who says don't emulate doesn't understand how art works, that's all i was saying, and they're probably just pretending to be a hipster. but i think every time i have to say this (every couple of weeks on here), i tend to use more and more 'fucks' and capital letters.

glad you're aware of this though, wasn't talking to just you, more of a psa kind of thing.