Producing electronic music as a hobby-- explain this to me.

[Sharmaji]

So as i've written before, my work (or, at times, "work") is music. performing, writing, playing, recording, etc.

I've been playing music in some way/shape/form since i was 7 years old, taking drum lessons, then piano lessons, being in bands, DJing through college, etc, etc. I can't ever remember a time not having it be something that i felt like I absolutely, 300%, HAD to do. Whether it's last night's gig or a current project, after all this time it's still the first thing i think about in the morning and the last when i go to bed. It's as much of a curse as it is a blessing, in ways, but still-- it's what I do.

I completely understand that it's possible to have music just be a part of your life, for enjoyments sake. I've got plenty of friends not in the biz who go to far more shows per week/month/year than I do; plenty of students who play music just for fun. I've got drumset students who approach the instrument almost more like a skillset challenge than some artistic thing-- and I get it. I get the immediate enjoyment of playing an instrument, of giving a voice and a moment to the organization of sound into music. it's wonderful, it's fantastic.

and for the life of me-- I don't understand how producing EDM as a hobby is anywhere near as enjoyable as just playing an instrument. Part and parcel of playing an instrument is learning how it works, how the notes work, how you fit with other musicians, how rhythm and melody and harmony all work together to increase or decrease an emotional moment, amongst the myriad other things that music does.

Plenty of weeks i spend 30+ hours in front of logic/ableton/PT, working on my own music or someone elses. The process of bringing a song to life, whether it's your idea or someone else, is never anything less than magical. The detail can be tedious-- patching x cable into y box, adjusting arrangments and keys to fit a singers voice, adjusting mix plug ins, finding the right "sound" in general-- but it's part of the bigger picture of creating or documenting a piece of music. It takes a ton of work but it fits into a bigger picture.

What I don't understand is the enjoyment people get from building EDM without some of this "bigger picture." From the posts on the forum recently, from the stream of WIP's, it seems like it's all of the drugdery, none of the awesome.

One of the great things about EDM is that it's never depended on a musician's background-- you simply need to create music that physically moves people, creates energy and excitement and plays with those emotions. Nowadays so many folks make EDM but have no DJing background-- don't have the knowledge, or even really the interest, in making dancefloor tracks, tracks that will move a night from one vibe to the next or continue a vibe.

Likewise, it's not 2005 anymore-- folks don't come out of scenes where you're competing to have big DJ's play your tracks-- and that competition is an extremely big part of making you tunes better. I remember the 1st radio spins my tunes ever got-- the moments were, to say the least, exhilarating. It also made me want to go in and tweak every tune i had in progress to make it better than every other tune that was on that radio show. Same for club nights, same for my own DJ sets, etc.

So this honestly isn't meant to be judgemental for folks new to this world, but it's genuinely something i don't understand. What do folks find enjoyable about producing EDM--not specifically dubstep--if you're not coming from some sort of bigger picture? Without an end goal, it seems to me that all the little bits of production-- sound design, synthesis, arrangement, mixing, etc etc etc is just busywork.

[Hashkey]

I agree! I like producing my music, I spend even more than 30hours per week.
I'm in front of ableton mostly 10 hours a day, but still can't produce decent shit after a whole year, sometimes I think I should go back making death metal.
Anyway I'm the last indicated person since i was mostly into grind/death metal/death core scene.

[Hircine]

I love all the aspects of music, from building instruments to production to live sound to acoustics to radio broadcast, I simply love everything about it and compared to music, everything else I do is a hobby. I can't imagine doing it "just for fun", I already consider every aspect of it "fun". It's my art, and I wouldn't like people seeing it as casual or anything like that.

[dougriley]

Hobby as opposed to... Full time job?

Or are you getting at the people who have no passion for the music they produce?

[Genevieve]

Tbh, just because 'their' music doesn't make you feel anything doens't mean there ins't any passion there. Or just because you don't see how it relates to the bigger picture doesn't mean that they don't have a bigger picture. Find it kind of an offensive post.

[Sharmaji]

@dougriley i do definitely see a depressingly stark lack of passion in the discussions on this forum these days. you kinda get the vibe that people think about music as a sort of identikit-- get some drums, a sub, a reece, some sort of automated whatever, a drop, some white noise and bang! tune!

but
a.) that kinda sucks, even for dance music which, by nature, needs to be repetetive and fit in with other tunes in its genre, and
b.) what's the point? what happens to that tune once it's done? just on to the next one? why?

re: hobby vs. full-time job, no, not that. it just seems to me that the really fun parts of music are not the most apparent in the production of music. The fun part of production, i'd think, is having your music find its place in the bigger world. And i get the sense that a lot of folks have no interest in getting things out beyond their soundcloud. which begs the question-- where's the fun in that?

@genevive, really don't care if it's offensive. looking for what makes people tick. If all people talk about are reece basses and soundcloud, then that's all we know you care about.

[Genevieve]

People want to learn ways to make sounds that they feel help them express their vision, hence why they talk about reeses and sound design. They talk about soundcloud because it's what they use to let themselves get heard. Those are simple little ideas that are much easier to communicate than what your music does to you, which is very intimate.

It doesn't seem so much like you want to 'understand' other musicians, but judge them. I don't get anything out of MOST music I hear. Chances are, I wouldn't get any out of yours either (and this isn't an attack. I'm just saying, statistically speaking, it's really likely that I'll neither like or hate your stuff and kind of 'nothing' it. Because that's how I respond to most music). If so, does that mean you have no passion for music either? I don't really get any passion out of your post either. Just words. Anyone can spout any number of words about how much they feel for music. Does that mean you AREN'T passionate? No, but using a million examples of why you're passionate about music doesn't necessarily mean you are passionate either. It can mean any number of things.

I didn't feel like it was directed at me at all, by the way, so that's not why I'm replying the way I am. But I for one don't really think there's much to talk about. I feel like language is a pretty shitty tool at communicating emotions. It's rigid and culture bound. Doesn't take into account the emotions we have 'between' the ones we have words for. Especially in text. My passion for my music is between me and my music. To try and put it to words to communicate something that won't be received I intend it to is pointless. I actually feel like it cheapens my music. ANYONE can talk passionately about music, meaning it is a different story. So I'd rather have the music speak for itself. And if I were to post something up and it doesn't speak to you then that's fine. But for you to tell me there's no passion in my hypothetical tune because you don't feel it is one of the most arrogant things you could do.

[smile]

re: hobby vs. full-time job, no, not that. it just seems to me that the really fun parts of music are not the most apparent in the production of music. The fun part of production, i'd think, is having your music find its place in the bigger world.

I for one really enjoy the technical aspects of music. Sure it's tedious and hard but it's also very rewarding when you figure something new out. Figuring out how i.e. vowel sounds or kickdrums work and then try to use that knowledge to try and emulate them yourself inside your DAW and try to make them work with a track is a great example of this.

Music production lets you be creative and technical at the same time which I think is great.

[Sharmaji]

re: hobby vs. full-time job, no, not that. it just seems to me that the really fun parts of music are not the most apparent in the production of music. The fun part of production, i'd think, is having your music find its place in the bigger world.

Figuring out how i.e. vowel sounds or kickdrums work and then try to use that knowledge to try and emulate them yourself inside your DAW and try to make them work with a track is a great example of this.

Music production lets you be creative and technical at the same time which I think is great.

exactly what I was curious about. thanks for the concise answer. I find it interesting that so many folks are drawn to the technical side of this-- you find a ton of musicians who have zero interest in the recording process, let alone the production process-- for them, the notes speak so much the rest is just.. the rest. very interesting. is it like a problem-solving thing?

[bkwsk]

I feel like language is a pretty shitty tool at communicating emotions. It's rigid and culture bound. Doesn't take into account the emotions we have 'between' the ones we have words for.

If you take "language" out of that sentence and put "music" there instead, the sentence is still completely applicable. Music is also rigid and culture bound (especially in western music). Since the last decades of this world have finally made possible for cultures to start communicating deeply between themselves, we've seen a lot of good composers from other cultures talk about how our (western) notions of harmony and melody and everything based on pitches might as well have "missed the whole point" of music, according to their own perspective of course. So, freeing yourself from cultural bounds is a conscient and free decision you have to make, whether you write music or do any other kind of artistic/cultural stuff. If you get in front of a piano and just play notes, it's not "natural" -in a biological, not-possible-to-be-otherwise way- to find a C-G "progression" pleasing. It's cultural. Not using words doesn't make you any freer. I think.

[efence]

@dougriley i do definitely see a depressingly stark lack of passion in the discussions on this forum these days. you kinda get the vibe that people think about music as a sort of identikit-- get some drums, a sub, a reece, some sort of automated whatever, a drop, some white noise and bang! tune!

but
a.) that kinda sucks, even for dance music which, by nature, needs to be repetetive and fit in with other tunes in its genre, and
b.) what's the point? what happens to that tune once it's done? just on to the next one? why?

re: hobby vs. full-time job, no, not that. it just seems to me that the really fun parts of music are not the most apparent in the production of music. The fun part of production, i'd think, is having your music find its place in the bigger world. And i get the sense that a lot of folks have no interest in getting things out beyond their soundcloud. which begs the question-- where's the fun in that?
.

I've been producing/recording for 15 years. Several times in the first 7 years I dropped the 9 to 5 and went for career in the music industry. It was a great learning experience but I learned that I do not like expressing my self creatively for money. For me money and art are polar oppposites that have no buisness sharing the same part of my life. i write/produce cause its fun and feels good. I dont really care where my music goes after i post it. i play instruments too but dont always have people i want to play with or get along with. recording by myself means i make the rules. its my ideas/emotions/thoughts why should it be any one but me to play it.
just me doe

edit
i also have about the coolest job that i could personally have and would not trade it for anything

[DrVinnyBoomBeats]

If someone is producing, and you never hear anything from them, how do you know they're really doing it? If they post a track, and 5 people listen, then it's not for nothing. If they don't do anything besides make a simple break-beat once a week just to kill time or whatever, what's it matter? I know people who have studied music their entire life and work in retail. It's like people who are legitimately good singers who might go to karaoke now and then. it's just a release. It's enough for them to do that. Not everyone wants to be a full time/successful/famous musician. It's an art. You do it because it's in you, not for other people. People write poems and paint pictures and no one ever sees those things but themselves. Same thing.

[viberous]

For me, it's very therapeutic to produce. My ideal downtime from my job and life is sitting infront of my monitors making weird sounds. I almost enjoy synthesis more than putting together a whole track. I really just try to have fun with it! I haven't really experienced much of it turning into work and hope that my passion for it doesn't change if things ever get to that point. 4 years ago I set a goal of playing at one of my favorite venues and i achieved it this past summer. Now in addition to playing more venues, I would really like to have a release on some reputable label.....not for money sake, but just to meet my personal goals. If things don't work out....then at the least I have a healthy way of expressing myself.

[sopranos1342]

And i get the sense that a lot of folks have no interest in getting things out beyond their soundcloud. which begs the question-- where's the fun in that?

You have it all wrong, IMO bud. And, actually, I feel sorry for you (no disrespect) that your definition of music is who hears it rather than the making of the music itself. In fact, I am a little confused by your post and YOU are the one that sounds like you are making music for other people, and not for yourself (and that begs the question - where is the fun in that?). Perhaps your inquiry is better suited for a forum of those who 'listen' to music? The joy or "fun of it" is in making the music. Period. Personally I could careless who listens or how many hits I can get at the end of the day. Of course I like to share my music with the hopes that listeners enjoy it - however, thats a sheer result, not the reason to make it. Its a symptom - Not a cause.

[Kongret]

I don't know anyone doing edm for hobby but i have a guess. Sometimes people who want to play instruments in your town just downright suck. Most musicians(hobby or pro) in russia and my town in particular are lazy, arrogant, mostly unskilled, don't even want to learn scales, skip rehearsals, don't answer calls and so on and so forth. In the end we have like 10 bands worth checking out for the whole country, the rest are getting drunk and pretend to be teh true rockerz. Horrible.

And playing alone is nice, but you can't complete whole songs and you will always feel kinda incomplete in a way.

[Sharmaji]

your definition of music is who hears it rather than the making of the music itself.

yeah, nope. read the post again.

In fact, I am a little confused by your post and YOU are the one that sounds like you are making music for other people, and not for yourself (and that begs the question - where is the fun in that?)

so much music--especially dance music, which (this being DSF) is the focus of this discussion--is a SOCIAL thing. it's means to celebrate, the reason people gather at festivals, what people listen to at parties. That's where the fun is.

The joy or "fun of it" is in making the music.

agreed.

Period.

disagreed. you're shrinking this down to a conversation that's much smaller than the question.

[Sharmaji]

I don't know anyone doing edm for hobby but i have a guess. Sometimes people who want to play instruments in your town just downright suck. Most musicians(hobby or pro) in russia and my town in particular are lazy, arrogant, mostly unskilled, don't even want to learn scales, skip rehearsals, don't answer calls and so on and so forth. In the end we have like 10 bands worth checking out for the whole country, the rest are getting drunk and pretend to be teh true rockerz. Horrible.

And playing alone is nice, but you can't complete whole songs and you will always feel kinda incomplete in a way.

i've thought this plenty of times. The fact that you're not dependent on anyone else can be quite a boon.

[fragments]

I'm absolutely fascinated by the fact that I can potentially create any sound and try to combine it with any other sound and make those fit another sound. I'm filled with lots of academic crap from school no one will care about, but to me electronic music is an opportunity for expressing oneself in a very post-modern way. I'm fascinated by the science of it. While I'd consider myself a hobby producer, I'm still interested in and am making small steps towards getting my music heard. Though I get something out of the process I want to share too.

Also, I do feel like I'm learning instruments as I'm using hardware...so like other instruments I'm often working inside limitations and learn what each machine/instrument can do.

I understand what you are saying though Sharmaji...there is a special magic to party tunes...that vibe thing you are talking about...people getting together and celebrating...that's what I remember about parties and festivals. Within my typical reach, that vibe seems to be lost though. I feel like even the producers out in the scene spinning their music and circulating their music are using it to fill some kind of identity void...I get the feeling that a lot of producers are producer for the image, because it's hip and more main stream now. Events I go to now everyone is just shoving their BS in my face constantly, trampling each other to get me their lackluster EP or a flier for their half-assed party etc.

[Kongret]

And there are also band break ups. Ugh. So much hatred and shouting that you feel bad for at least a week after that.

[ehbes]

TBH, I really don't know why i love it. Ive accepted the fact that my music isn't going to be #1 on beatport, iTunes, and all the rest. But thats down to style not quality. the biggest drive for me is hearing other peoples music, its weird but i always feel like i have to 1 up other people just for my own satisfaction alone. So i guess for me its just a personal drive to make things that i can be proud of.