Producing electronic music as a hobby-- explain this to me.

[Sharmaji]

I agree entirely that people should have hobbies. I started cycling last year and the endless rush of endorphins after a 70-mile ride-- let alone the 16,000 extra calories i can (and need to) eat a week, make live totally different and really fun. I'm sure there's pro athletes out there who are curious about what people find enjoyable about the relevant activity, as there's a million potential things.

I find it a bit hard to believe that you think the fun is at getting your sound out there, it seems unless your music is heard by other people, you are not having any fun doing it.

once again, actually READ the post rather than skim it. Good ol' internet.

I'm seeing lots of folks talk about loving the technical side of stuff, and wanting to get better at that-- which i dig entirely. I mixed god knows how many records last year, mostly for other folks and few for myself and projects that i'm involved in-- it's great fun in that it's a big problem solving task. When you're working on someone else's song, it's even easier-- you've got the great disconnect from the music which lets you be bold with your choices. do whatever you have to get the drums pumping the right amount, to build the intensity of the sounds to the right level at the right place, etc.

One thing i'm not hearing alot about is the creative drive. I get that people want to get better at the tangible things, things for which there are clear yardsticks-- understanding and using dynamic and frequency tools better, getting a loud mixdown, easily-engineering particular synth sounds etc. But what about the intangibles-- the absolute NEED to create, to make music. Would you go crazy if you couldn't write?

In alot of EDM-- brostep especially-- i hear a ton of tunes that sound big and clear and have all the soul of a bowl of Lucky Charms. Reminds me of the arguments people were having in D&B a decade ago, when lots of young producers honestly felt that a well-engineered tune was more important than a well-written one.

[Ghost of Muttley]

I'm sure there's pro athletes out there who are curious about what people find enjoyable about the relevant activity, as there's a million potential things.

I think you should test this theory by contacting Lance Armstrong and telling him that cycling story about make live total fun different.

[fragments]

@Sharmaji: Dunno if any of my posts really covered this, but while I did already state the technical aspect fascinates me. The creative process itself, that entire experience of playing musician, engineer, etc...the creative part of that is what I get the most out of. I share my tunes and do some work to get them out there, but I honestly get a lot out of working on a tune, finishing it to my satisfaction, putting it away and beginning another.

And, I also remember that argument about DnB...I think a lot of that has to do more with people making tunes that fit neatly into genre/DJ conventions rather than just making music. In both "brostep" and a lot of DnB to get the tunes to work (because the mix is so full) takes a lot of technical knowledge--with out that polish do you think DJs would spin the tunes? Wouldn't they sound weird in the context of a set filled with tunes that are technically more impressive even if the song writing was better?

[SKIN E]

the absolute NEED to create, to make music. Would you go crazy if you couldn't write?

Strange question again, you adapt and find something else..

[erratech]

It is definitely the creative drive for me, to create something from absolutely nothing that is by its very nature completely transient and only exists while you are experiencing it is a profound and humbling thing. Plus the ability to express emotions in a way that isnt necessarily possible with words is a very powerful attraction.

[drake89]

It is definitely the creative drive for me, to create something from absolutely nothing that is by its very nature completely transient and only exists while you are experiencing it is a profound and humbling thing. Plus the ability to express emotions in a way that isnt necessarily possible with words is a very powerful attraction.

i kind of forgot about that whole aspect, especially since everyone and their dog has a copy of ableton/fruity/massive these days. makes me feel cool

and yes, i would go crazy without having a creative outlet. mine's music. and it's kind of ironic since i'm not really proficient at anything in particular. so thinking out loud, i guess producing is like playing an instrument for me. it just takes longer

[Sharmaji]

@erratech, you're onto something big, especially in the context of working in a recorded medium-- capturing something immediate that dissapears as quickly as it came. lightning in a bottle. hell it's the whole reason recording music exists! It's also the hardest energy to keep going when using a DAW, I find, with all of the keystrokes and subroutines (open plugin, tweak, etc, etc). Very cool that you find it working in one.

@fragments: the mixdown is key for dance music, always has been-- definitely not knocking that. However, if someone make tunes for himself and solely for himself, is that person concerned whether or not DJ's will spin it? is the mixdown as important as... well, something else in the writing process?

What i got from that argument back in the day is that in the context of mid-2000s d&b, it's easier to keep making things bigger/brighter/thicker/heavier than it is to write a good tune. Remember Dev Paradox going off the handle on DoA?

as for the waste posts:

the absolute NEED to create, to make music. Would you go crazy if you couldn't write?

Strange question again, you adapt and find something else..

If that's the way you feel, i'd suggest that music isn't the right thing for you.

I'm sure there's pro athletes out there who are curious about what people find enjoyable about the relevant activity, as there's a million potential things.

I think you should test this theory by contacting Lance Armstrong and telling him that cycling story about make live total fun different.

cute. Illiterate and irrelvant, but cute nonethieless.

[fragments]

@fragments: the mixdown is key for dance music, always has been-- definitely not knocking that. However, if someone make tunes for himself and solely for himself, is that person concerned whether or not DJ's will spin it? is the mixdown as important as... well, something else in the writing process?

Oh. Not at all, the mixdown isn't as important as trying to make a tune that has "that something" that just makes it awesome. I guess what I was getting at is that both "brostep" and a lot of DnB are really, really dependent on the technical aspects, more so than some other genres. You need to sidechain you sidechain compression to your parallel compression to you sidechain EQ ;p so as the genres progressed people got obsessed with the technical aspects because it seemed soooo essential.

At the end of the day, I'd rather listen to a songthat's just good. I love dance tunes, but I'd rather listen to a song. Not all dance tunes are songs, doing both is the ideal for me.

Dunno if any of this makes sense.

[Mad_EP]

Yeah... I was pretty much done with this place, but I might have to chime in on this one.


I think most of the people who are getting defensive about Dave's OP didn't read (or want to internalize) the post correctly. It is easy to be faux-outraged about reducing this forum to the technical & achievement-seeking... but all one needs to do is take a snapshot look at the first page of this forum, monthly for a year.. to see that the most often asked question is "How do I do X like So-&-So..."? It is so rare that a question is asked like "How do I improve my melodies" or "What is the most addictive hook you ever heard" or "Share your percussion 'groove' techniques", etc.

[Augment]

Haven't read through this all, just want to say that I produce edm as a hobby because I can make pretty much exactly what I want. Like, the music I make is made for me, I really dig my own music. If I wasn't able to produce, I'd beatbox random tunes to myself, or just sit and play something on the guitar. I feel satisfied when making something I dig. Winter song in my sig, think I've listened to it close to atleast 200 times after I put it out, since it's so perfect for me, if that makes sense. I make random weird loops all the time, and just sit and listen to it om repeat, without making it a full tune. Sometimes because I dig the sounds in the loop, sometimes because I dig the melody, sometimes both of those things. I like being in full control over the stuff i make, what hihat to use, what pattern it should play etc. Dunno if this post makes sense anymore lol

[fragments]

Yeah... I was pretty much done with this place, but I might have to chime in on this one.


I think most of the people who are getting defensive about Dave's OP didn't read (or want to internalize) the post correctly. It is easy to be faux-outraged about reducing this forum to the technical & achievement-seeking... but all one needs to do is take a snapshot look at the first page of this forum, monthly for a year.. to see that the most often asked question is "How do I do X like So-&-So..."? It is so rare that a question is asked like "How do I improve my melodies" or "What is the most addictive hook you ever heard" or "Share your percussion 'groove' techniques", etc.

[tintala]

This is a very subjective topic , sorta like trying to explain your pain to a doctor who has a thousand other patients in some sort of pain. Creativity is subjective.

[Sharmaji]

Yeah... I was pretty much done with this place, but I might have to chime in on this one.


I think most of the people who are getting defensive about Dave's OP didn't read (or want to internalize) the post correctly. It is easy to be faux-outraged about reducing this forum to the technical & achievement-seeking... but all one needs to do is take a snapshot look at the first page of this forum, monthly for a year.. to see that the most often asked question is "How do I do X like So-&-So..."? It is so rare that a question is asked like "How do I improve my melodies" or "What is the most addictive hook you ever heard" or "Share your percussion 'groove' techniques", etc.

busted.

you know i was half-trying to rope you, Deadly, Depone, Forsaken, and the other lost soldiers with war stories to share back here. So, bring it on MadEP-- music is your professional life, it certainly didn't get to be that way by treating it as a hobby; you run a radio show, you make tracks, you share them with the rest of the world---- how'd you make it work? how'd you avoid getting overwhelmed with the technical aspects of mixing, and just push through to create?

[Sharmaji]

This is a very subjective topic , sorta like trying to explain your pain to a doctor who has a thousand other patients in some sort of pain. Creativity is subjective.

the inside-facing world of creativity is personal and subjective, sure-- but you either create, or your don't.

[wub]

I often worry that I don't focus enough on the technical side. But the creative 'jam' sessions I have I find far more rewarding due to the tangible output at the end of them.

[Mad_EP]

how'd you make it work? how'd you avoid getting overwhelmed with the technical aspects of mixing, and just push through to create?

I think it is because beyond my musical training as a cellist - I trained as a proper recording engineer. I interned with (a now 4-time Grammy winning) classical engineer and then went to school to further those studies at a top engineering school. The way studios work is very similar to the way that I work now: spend time in the preparation (mic placement, sculpting and crafting sounds, learn & practice the parts you will play live, etc).... and then when it comes to recording & mixdown, I do most of that on the fly. I don't mind locking down and working on the minor details for hours upon hours - but it all has to have a final, musical outcome for me. I strive to make even my laboriously created studio tracks to feel like a performance - because that is how it feels for me every time I hear them played over speakers. Also - most of my albums have been full of guest musicians (from jazz trumpet players to flute & saxophone to turntablists..) - and that is because one of the greatest joys of music is creating music with musicians you respect and admire.

I do understand how some people can be completely absorbed by the technical - remember back in '99 when Max/MSP and Csound were so hot that EVERYONE was learning to create their own synths and effects? I wanted to be one of those guys... but at the end of the day, working towards a particular musical outcome (rather than a tool that could be used for a musical outcome) always won.

I think people who love to tweak synths all day, but can never finish a track should be honest with themselves and say - "Hey, maybe trying to get a record deal isn't really for me... but rather I should try to become one of the elite sound designers who program presets for synths, etc". There is nothing "lesser" about that in the slightest. I've always wanted to do that - but I don't have that gift. If you do... don't throw it away.

I am a musician, because as difficult as it is... it still takes MORE effort for me to try resist it. While the rewards have been indescribable, so have the sacrifices....including losing serious relationships over it. To put it in perspective: I am the only one who has ever played, let alone owned my cello - and our 20 year anniversary is coming up in March (I've been playing cello for a total of 28 years). Last December I celebrated only my 6th year of marriage.

In fact, in a bit of personal disclosure... this is a track that I wrote a few years ago when I thought my marriage was ending. I had a shitty mic back then and the mixing could be a bit better... but it was important for me to get the track out of me as quickly as possible. I think the whole thing took 3 or 4 hours from start to finish... and the mixing imperfections don't bother me because the visceral emotions I need to exorcise fall outweighed any technical concern.
Soundcloud

[SKIN E]

If that's the way you feel, i'd suggest that music isn't the right thing for you.

Because I won't go crazy if I couldn't write..? Sorry but that is just plain out retarded to say, you seem smarter than that.

As I said it's a hobby for me, a hobby which I love, but most things you said in this topic are really quite strange coming from you I find, isnt it obvious that humans love technical things and a challenge? How about the many people who engineer as a hobby, take things apart and put them back together.. are you saying that they don't enjoy the part of taking it apart, but only get satisfaction from the end result? I f I really misunderstood your point I apologize but to me it seems like your asking people why they enjoy technical things.

I don't normally get involved into this kinda bs but your responses were kinda weak and I did not expect that from you!

[Sharmaji]

I often worry that I don't focus enough on the technical side. But the creative 'jam' sessions I have I find far more rewarding due to the tangible output at the end of them.

Wub i think the fact that you're endlessly curious about making/creating/capturing interesting sounds points to the opposite. Look at burial-- he knew his drums were banging when they looked like a fishbone in soundforge or whatever... that's enough. getting all plug-in crazy is only 1, very limited, side of being technically capable at making electronic music.

[Sharmaji]

I do understand how some people can be completely absorbed by the technical - remember back in '99 when Max/MSP and Csound were so hot that EVERYONE was learning to create their own synths and effects? I wanted to be one of those guys... but at the end of the day, working towards a particular musical outcome (rather than a tool that could be used for a musical outcome) always won.

I think people who love to tweak synths all day, but can never finish a track should be honest with themselves and say - "Hey, maybe trying to get a record deal isn't really for me... but rather I should try to become one of the elite sound designers who program presets for synths, etc". There is nothing "lesser" about that in the slightest. I've always wanted to do that - but I don't have that gift. If you do... don't throw it away.

hear hear!

[Dystinkt]

When I first got into making music, I was about 13/14 and I just wanted to make songs that people danced to, my goal was to make a tune in a club that sent everyone mental. I also listened to some dance tunes and wanted to beat what those guys could come up with. As I've gotten older, I'm 18 now, musics become something of a release for me as my musicianship has improved (arguably). I still make a lot of tunes with the dance in mind, but now I feel that I can express emotions and feelings through what I write as well. Music was a haven for me when I was going through a really tough time of life last year, I'd pour all my feelings into my music. The only person that heard the songs I made during that time (my best friend of about 5-6 years) said musically they were the best stuff I've ever made even now. I've been lucky enough to secure some releases, but even if it doesnt work out as a job, I'd still make music because as Sharmaji said earlier, I'd go crazy without it.