Overcompression - The Loudness War

[jolly wailer]

Surely dubstep doesn't need compression that much at all?

There's so much space in the music, so much air, that it's not we're trying to squeeze things in.

I wouldn't say there's alot of space in the tunes being released these days... not that its a bad thing.. but classifying most dubstep being released at the moment as having "alot of space" is a little off the mark.. dubstep definitly has gotten alot busier drum-wise and really complicated in the bassline realm as well.. I'm not hearing the same spacious ambience nowadays that I was hearing as recently as the tail end of '05..

there definitly is a loudness war going on in dubstep.... far more producers are looking to murk the floor these days methinks

[osk]

So you're making the exact same point as I was:

That dubstep doesn't need over compression 'cos it should, in my opinion, have space to breathe.

The moment dubstep needs loads of compression is the moment it starts to lose its soul.

Maybe I'm wrong; just what I believe...

[jolly wailer]

nah too late dubstep already has loads of compression - all music these days inherently does



I wasn't making the same point as you


this genre isn't some virgin realm as yet untouched by the effects of compression.. I'm really not sure we're talking about the same thing.. its not like some group of people are sitting around waiting to decide whether they should "compress dubstep" or not.. compression is a recording technique that is -as the article stated- pretty much applied to all music produced these days... especially EDM forms

I was commenting on the sort of outmoded view that dubstep is a music that "has so much space to breathe" where by looking at the releases churned out recently its very much up there with some of the loudest rowdiest shit coming out anywhere...

and using a compressor has nothing to do with soul... where are you getting this stuff from???

{edit} actually just listened to Forensix' 'coming up for air' ok ok there is a tune with some space in it... good bits there fo fo

[osk]

nah too late dubstep already has loads of compression - all music these days inherently does



I wasn't making the same point as you


this genre isn't some virgin realm as yet untouched by the effects of compression.. I'm really not sure we're talking about the same thing.. its not like some group of people are sitting around waiting to decide whether they should "compress dubstep" or not.. compression is a recording technique that is -as the article stated- pretty much applied to all music produced these days... especially EDM forms

I was commenting on the sort of outmoded view that dubstep is a music that "has so much space to breathe" where by looking at the releases churned out recently its very much up there with some of the loudest rowdiest shit coming out anywhere...

and using a compressor has nothing to do with soul... where are you getting this stuff from???

{edit} actually just listened to Forensix' 'coming up for air' ok ok there is a tune with some space in it... good bits there fo fo

Mate if you read some of your posts round here you'd see that you tend to come across as quite an arrogant little prick. Do you think I don't know what's coming out? Do you think I don't listen to dubstep? Do you think my ears aren't trained to the ground every single day I get up? Do you think, perhaps, that I might have heard the latest bits down at FWD every week? Maybe more than you? You're in Korea by the looks of it...

No need to roll your eyes at me mate.

I dind't say using a compressor means losing the soul - I said that the moment we NEED too much compression is the moment when I fear the music will be losing the things that make it so great: subtelty, vibes etc...

You stick to your mid range basslines and earsplitting snares...

[jolly wailer]

oh come on now you're getting mad aren't you - please its a fucking smiley face...



I just don't like when I make a point of contention with someone, in fact, when I posit the opposite of what someone is arguing.. and they take my stance and say "oh you're making the exact same point as I am"...

I'll say it again dude I wasn't making the same point as you.


take it easy


lol

[forensix (mcr)]

Chill out girls

Compression is important so is eq we don't need to get upset about it

[thump rat]

Fuck off and Die.

Compressions a twat with a small dick and a stupid face.

[osk]

Fuck off and Die.

Compressions a twat with a small dick and a stupid face.

funny

[thesis]

The loudness war had a lot to do with me losing interest in DnB (after 5 years of being a fanatic)

I went to a few nights which were all super compressed, static-y hihats at 180bpm. everyone knows the sound I'm talking about. It made me sleepy (literally). And most new DnB I hear is along the same lines, so I can't really get back into it.

So that scene lost a member because of their loudness war...

[westernsynthetics]

The loudness war had a lot to do with me losing interest in DnB (after 5 years of being a fanatic)

I went to a few nights which were all super compressed, static-y hihats at 180bpm. everyone knows the sound I'm talking about. It made me sleepy (literally). And most new DnB I hear is along the same lines, so I can't really get back into it.

So that scene lost a member because of their loudness war...

make that two.

[osk]

The loudness war had a lot to do with me losing interest in DnB (after 5 years of being a fanatic)

I went to a few nights which were all super compressed, static-y hihats at 180bpm. everyone knows the sound I'm talking about. It made me sleepy (literally). And most new DnB I hear is along the same lines, so I can't really get back into it.

So that scene lost a member because of their loudness war...

make that two.

THREE.

This is exactly what I was trying to get across earlier in this thread: that dusbtep doesn't NEED compression.

Yet some people seem to think the loudness war is all good.

Down at FWD a few weeks back I swear it was like a drum and bass night - mid range searing basslines ripping through my ears and horrible, rigid sounding drums.

[gravious]

The loudness war had a lot to do with me losing interest in DnB (after 5 years of being a fanatic)

I went to a few nights which were all super compressed, static-y hihats at 180bpm. everyone knows the sound I'm talking about. It made me sleepy (literally). And most new DnB I hear is along the same lines, so I can't really get back into it.

So that scene lost a member because of their loudness war...

make that two.

THREE.

This is exactly what I was trying to get across earlier in this thread: that dusbtep doesn't NEED compression.

Yet some people seem to think the loudness war is all good.

Down at FWD a few weeks back I swear it was like a drum and bass night - mid range searing basslines ripping through my ears and horrible, rigid sounding drums.

Compression is not inherently bad - that is a point that needs to be made here. The application of it to squish tunes into the chartacteristic "loaf of bread" shape that has resulted from the loudness war is another matter.

We don't need a loudness war, we do need compression. it is a very useful tool to get the most out of your mixdown.

[osk]

Absolutely. I use it here and there.

But yeah, that needed clearing up. I guess we're talking OVER compression here...

[batfink]

this is a bit of a catch 22 though.

if you put a quiet mixdown online, most people will slate it and/or think its really badly produced. if you put a version you;ve smashed to fuck with Waves L3 up, which has all the subtlety of a rhino on a crack binge, they'll think its grimey.

for super quick mastering for online purposes (mp3s, virb. myspaz whatever), L3 and its ilk are cool, but it only needs to be doing 3/4db gain reduction to begin sounding very meh imo.

[red shrapnel]

this is just my two cents whether its truly relevant to the entirety of this topic or not im not sure, but i think a way to defeat the "loudness war", is purely progression, and i keep using this as a positive and critique on dubstep that has been coming out lately, i notice the more progression you have within a track the less "loudness" your able to mud over it, with all these loud murky tracks that come out lately it seems they all have the general same minimal formula of some element of attention grab, but after hearing the same track a few times over it becomes repetitive and then you find yourself just wanting a new dubstep release, I find older dubstep from last year and 05, draws longer lasting attention than a majority of new releases from this year, like i said though not everyone may agree on this but i think dubstep has progression but definitely needs more of a majority interest on the subject or else it will have the same fate as dnb, theres plenty of room for dubstep to grow, to progress and still be powerful.

[slothrop]

Yeah, basically if you're putting out identikit wobblers then you need to squash them to buggery to get them to stand out from all the other identikit wobblers. If your tracks are original and different and don't sound like everything else they'll stand out and work well even if they aren't totally as loud as they could be.

[duskkeysound]

Interesting thread.

Another (old) article on the loudness wars here.

Again, written by someone about rock music which I have very little time for, but some good points. Especially like the point made about 1/4 of the way down - you'll see what I mean

The application of it to squish tunes into the chartacteristic "loaf of bread" shape that has resulted from the loudness war is another matter.

Yep.

Compression's a funny thing - lots of recent D&B has far too much applied to the overall mix and it knackers/bores my ears very quickly. But in moderation, I don't see any reason why it should be an issue for dubstep tunes - as long as there's the "space" thing going on in the tune. And I tend to find compression on individual kicks/claps/snares a necessity.

[auan]

I don't think anyone's suggesting we stop using compressors altogether. That would be stupid.

[auan]

And any time I hear someone talking about Rush, all I can think of is the guy with the mullet in Orgazmo. "Dude, Geddy Lee, best bass player ever!"

Good article though. He does make the point that it's the label that decides how (badly) they want to master the record, and hardly ever the musician's/producer's/engineer's fault. And since the consumers tell the the labels what they want, it's not really up to us guys on a production forum, is it? And I was always under the impression that mastering guys preferred to have as little compression on the main mix as possible when they received it.

[two oh one]

Indeed. Compression is good in moderation.

Compressing each channel individually as needed is good.

2-3 dB of peak smacking on the master bus is good and helps to gel everything together.

Massive amounts of crunchy compression/limiting on the master bus is not.


Things are getting a little hectic in Dubstep now. I think a lot of the tracks will be four on the floor by the end of the year. Things are heading that way quickly. People just can't help themselves. Things are getting so compressed that a hihat is so thick and impacting, that it may as well be a kick drum.

Stop pretending, just write hard house and Techno and have done with it...